This is an unashamed blog. I make no apologies. It may well break the
cardinal rule of UKRM and be boring. If you are not interested in a
list of finding fault after fault, of pig-headed stupidity in the face
of adversity then look away now.

The Nearest and Dearest reckons that just writing this was a sort of
catharsis for me. She could well be right. 


Prat the first: But it's cheap!

Despite enjoying the extra space having sold my R1, the garage vacuum
didn't  last long. I started hankering for something different. Maybe
a classic, perhaps a Brit single or a more street-oriented Guzzi. The
cash from the sale of the R1 was burning a hole in my pocket.

I soon spotted a V11 Sport on eBay, a part-exchange being sold by a
dealer. As the bidding hadn't got too high, decided to put in a lowish
bid and see what happened. If I won, good; if not; well I still had
cash and a roomy garage.

In the pictures in the eBay listing, the fuel tank looked a bit faded
but it was difficult to tell for sure; could just have been the
photography. I also suspected that there was some cosmetic damage: the
text pointed out that the headlight brackets had been replaced. To me
that said 'frontal impact repaired on the cheap' and the photo showed
what looked like scuffs on the bottom of the right exhaust, but the
rest of the listing was pretty upbeat: just two prior owners,
alarm/immobilizer, only 13000 miles; serviced only a month ago and
'some' service history. It was a Guzzi, and Guzzi owners tend to keep 
their bikes and look after them, right? And it was currently cheap.
Let us not forget the clinching argument.

To my surprise, I won it. Perhaps this should have told me something.

I was happy to pay a deposit via Pay Pal, and arranged to collect the
next Saturday morning. Unfortunately, when I announced this to the
Domestic Management, she then said that she'd booked something herself
for that day and hadn't told me 'because you get angry'. I was a bit
taken aback by this (I'm fairly sure that I'm a pretty mild-mannered
guy), but I pointed out that holding off and telling me at the
eleventh hour when I had made my own plans *was* guaranteed to
irritate me. I figured that I could still do it that day but I
wouldn't have much time to mess about collecting the bike. So of
course, the inspection would be a bit hasty.

Saturday morning arrived and, bright and early, off I trundled with
the trailer and a big wodge of cash. The bike was located in a village
deep in darkest Norfolk. My first reaction to seeing it (the bike, not
the village) was 'Oh.' The bike was lurking between two parked cars by
the side of the road. If a bike could look world-weary and dispirited,
this one did.

The seller looked a little surprised to see me, apparently he'd tried
to email me the day before to delay me collecting the bike because the
starter was erratic. Unfortunately I hadn't checked my email after 9PM
the previous evening. I'm still not sure if this wasn't a deliberate
ploy. Well, these V11s do suffer from bad relays and I'd had similar
issues with my Quota. No biggie.

Initial inspection showed that paint was flaking off various alloy
bits, most fasteners were corroded, the instrument console had
mismatched screws and the tank was indeed faded, highlighted by the
fact that a tank protector had been removed leaving a brighter shadow.
That was all right though because someone had stuck a different-shaped
one over the top, one with a picture of Death and his scythe and some
skulls. Classy. Adding more stylish touches were a pair of blue neon
spark plug caps and real genuine carbon-effect front mini-indicators.
Oh well, I decided that I'd better check that the beast approximated 
to the description and get it loaded up. 

Looking closer at the bike, I noticed that the odometer read 14100
miles, not the 130000 miles indicated on the listing. Ho hum, not a
huge difference, but still.... The bike had definitely been crashed at
some time in its life: the lock-stops were asymmetrical and *both* the
rocker box protectors were scarred. For all that, the frame looked
straight and the forks were straight with no stiffness, scuffs or
weeps and the engine started easily enough and idled OK. 
There was no blue smoke when I blipped the throttle. A very brief
trundle down the road showed that the brakes were OK and the
transmission seemed to be basically present. I couldn't see the
indicators working as I rode but the tell-tale flashed at the right
rate. A cursory glance showed that something about the rear brake
master cylinder mounting was a bit... crude, but hey, it's a Guzzi and
it worked OK. Time was pressing.

Final checks were the key (there was only the one): yep, it fitted all
the locks, and the numbers: all matched against the document. I forgot
to check the alarm and immobilizer. As we were signing the documents,
I asked about the service history. The seller indicated that he'd done
the service about three months ago for the previous owner, who had
then strangely sold the bike almost immediately. He said that if he
couldn't find the original then he'd print it out and send it on. So
the 'partial service history' was him servicing it once three months
ago, not one month ago as claimed on the listing. There was, of
course, no user manual or toolkit with the bike. I was beginning to
wonder what I'd let myself in for, but it was an eBay auction and you
'bid to buy, not haggle' as I always put on my own listings.

So we loaded the bike up. The seller obviously didn't trust my method
of tying down because he re-did some of them. He did actually do a
pretty good job. Maybe he just wanted the bike as far away as possible
as soon as possible. I headed home laden with a bike, seat cowl and a
cheap aftermarket starter/kill switch unit that the seller had
intended to fit to cure the starter issue.


Prat the second: A voyage of discovery.

Having got the bike home, I had time to wash my new purchase but I was
busy the rest of the the day so couldn't really examine it in detail.
The next day, I had a proper look. The first thing I noticed was that
the front brake lever pivot pin had shaken half out - the nut was
missing. Bikes are all about excitement and there's nothing like brake
failure to get the old adrenaline flowing. Then I noticed that the
front brake light switch wires were broken off. With a view to
soldering new terminals on, I buzzed it out and found that 
the switch was borked. O-kay. Fine. Let's look at the rear brake light
switch. Ah. There doesn't appear to be one. 

I had already figured that the bike had been crashed but I found new
evidence, if any were needed: the clutch & front brake levers were
slightly different colours and the RHS foot-peg was slightly bent. It
was, in retrospect, bleeding obvious. The bike had obviously been
crashed relatively recently;  there's no way on Earth it would have
passed an MOT in the state I collected it in.

There was still something odd about that rear brake master cylinder
and I gave it my full attention: all three seconds' worth. What's
this? Why would its mounting bracket be spaced off the frame with
washers? The reservoir was there and full of nice clean brake fluid...
at this point my eyes flicked to the two reservoirs on the handlebars,
both showing distinctly brown contents. Then it was like a blind man
suddenly seeing: the reservoir was bodged onto the alloy shield and
shouldn't be there. The 'bracket' was a strip of steel added to
accommodate a master cylinder whose mounting holes did not match the
frame lugs. Oh arse. Okay. Get a grip. After the front brake
discovery, I checked the pin that connects the lever to the master
cylinder: it was a simple bolt, with no nut. Again, mere friction lay
between that and brake failure. The previous owner obviously wanted to
live life in the fast lane, but die in someone else's boot.

What else did we have? The left front indicator didn't work: I
supposed that I'd better open it up and find out what bulb it took. Ho
hum, they work better with a bulb actually present, don't they? I
couldn't find an exact match locally but wedged a similar sized one
in. I'll replace the indicators later.

Next, I found that the intermittent starter fault was now a permanent
one and the bike wouldn't start, so spent a couple of hours tracing
wires and swapping and cleaning relays. I'd found a service manual
on-line but irritatingly it only showed what a few of the relays did -
obviously the wiring diagram showed them all but not in which order
they were in their little sockets, so it took a bit of trial and error
and pressing buttons and listening and feeling for the clicks. By
taking the cover off one relay and manually squeezing the contacts
together, I got a cough out of the starter motor, which made me jump 
as I'd half expected nothing to happen. With that clue I figured out
quite quickly that the fault was the clutch switch interlock combined
with dirty relay contacts. Shorted and sorted.

During this electrical work, I recalled that this bike should have had
an alarm, but the fob was notable by its absence. As I was working, I
had also spotted wires that had been rejoined with screw terminals and
a LED on the back mudguard with a pair of wires that went nowhere.
Clearly there had been an alarm once. In truth, I don't like the damn
things anyway, though to be fair the Meta on my old TLR worked well. I
chalked it up as one less thing to worry about. This mellow moment
didn't last: while reading the manual, I discovered that these bikes
come fitted as standard with a steering damper, so I checked. There
were the brackets, but the damper was long gone. I do have an Ohlins
floating around somewhere, so if the bike really needs it then I'll
fit that. One report I read suggested that they're not really needed
though.

Next, check all the other lights. All OK except for the number plate
light. As we're now on GMT I figured that I could do with all the
lights working, so spent a merry hour stripping the entire back end of
the bike, including having to drill out two corroded bolts. Yes, you
really do have to undo sixteen fasteners and remove the tailpiece and
split the double-skinned back mudguard to replace the number plate
bulb.

It occurred to me then to check the tyre pressures and check that the
valve caps were present - these often get left off by careless owners.
Call me picky but it's little things like this that could let down a
well-maintained bike such as this one. The front cap was present but
the back one was missing. How surprising. The valve itself looked...
whaat? What kind of pea-brained gorilla can chip a ruddy great chunk
off the end of a tyre valve? Even using my compressor, I couldn't get
enough air into the tyre. I had one of those screw-on right-angle
adapters somewhere that might have sealed well enough, but I'd 
no idea where it was.

Monday came and I sorted the insurance and ordered some spares. There
wasn't much I could do now until the spares arrived - I felt that the
bike really wasn't fit for serious use. I had also decided that as
there was only half a millimetre of legal tread left on the rear tyre
('a good few miles' according to the eBay listing) I also ordered a
replacement BT020 for fitting the following Saturday. 

Skip forward to the the weekend and another disappointment. I arrived
at the local shop, wheel gripped in my sweaty paws. There was no shiny
new tyre waiting for me - apparently Bridgestone have gone all
model-specific and as I hadn't left any contact details, they couldn't
call to ask what it was for. Double bugger. As I'd heard good things
about Michelin Pilot Road tyres, I ordered one of those. I also bought
a cheap rear brake light switch and made up a bracket for it. 

So now we have an engine that seems to start reliably, working lights
and insurance. Time to actually ride the thing for the first time
since I got it home, though the back tyre pressure is a bit low. OK,
just a mile or two up and down a local country lane. A very straight
country lane. Turning out of our quiet close, I was struck by one
aspect of the bike's handling: its absence. The bike felt dreadful.
Out on the lane I opened the taps and the... the vibes, man! But the
bike accelerated smartly enough and once up to speed, was stable and
tracked straight hands-off. The brakes took a bit of a squeeze  (I
think they're the same as fitted to my Tuono) but worked well with no 
judder. There's hope yet.

The next day I thought I'd better check the engine oil. Well, it was
there. Lots of it. Rather too much in fact, nearly two inches higher
than it should be. So out came the drain pan to lower the level a bit.
I figured that the MOT, which was three months old, would have been
done about the same time as the service. The mileage recorded on the
certificate suggested that around 2K miles had passed since then. 

You know, it's impressive just how thick and black oil can get in just
three months and about 2000 miles. It was similar to the tar that
comes out of my car, and that's a diesel. I sighed and let the sump
drain completely and Halfords got some more business. While I was at
it I decided to buy some EP-80W90 for the transmission, too. The oil
changes went without a hitch, so in a fit of optimism, I decided to
flush the front brake system. The bleed nipples turned nice and easily
(aren't Brembo's wonderful?) but one of the screws on the reservoir
was, you guessed it, seized, resulting in the nut rotated in the 
plastic. I initially drilled the screw head off so I could at least
get into the reservoir, then thought I'd try drilling the nut off from
the side. Somehow it worked, and to celebrate I tried to buy
replacement screws. No-one stocked them locally, so I ordered some
stainless replacements via eBay. I still have faith.

Later that week, with the new tyre and a new set of rear brake pads
fitted, I finally got to ride this bike properly and took it to work.
Guess what: the low-speed handling was still terrible; with a
barely-scrubbed rear tyre it was almost frightening, with a tendency
to flop into slow corners and wobble alarmingly once banked over.
Higher speeds were fine. Somewhat deflated, I made a mental note to
check the head races.

The next weekend I tried out the 'grease inna bag' patent head race
test jig. Yep, notched in the straight-ahead position. As it was wet
and windy I wasn't about to go on any joy rides, so contented myself
with checking the valve clearances and balancing the throttles: both
jobs are a doddle on these bikes. Which brings us almost up-to-date. 

prat the third: riding it.

I rode the beast into work yesterday; the vibes seemed less obtrusive,
the handling less frightening; at least now that I knew what the issue
was and oddly, just knowing helped enormously. Maybe the fact that the
sun was shining helped. I found that I could gently 'help' the bars
turn in; I still had to corner carefully, mind, and the chicken strips
are currently almost as wide as the scrubbed bit. New head races
ordered. Kerching. They arrived today, the day after I ordered them.
Postal strike? What postal strike?

So: how's it to ride?

Having finally got to actually ride the thing properly, if not at its
best, I've found that the gearbox is oddly slick, except when it
isn't; it doesn't seem to like being up-shifted lazily at low revs and
will hit a false neutral. At other times it's almost uncannily slick,
but slow. I can't comment on the handling, of course. Out on the road
today the engine growled and it felt alive and, and, right. A proper
motorcycle, whatever that is. The bike really did accelerate when I
used the revs, too; not in the 'Yeee-haaah! way of a Tuono or an R1,
but 100mph already? Optimistic speedo, surely? Then I noticed that
when bimbling in A14 traffic, the speeds look about right. Maybe it's
non-linear; I'll check it out properly one day. But just maybe it's
correct....  The headlight diddn't live up to one report and seemed
quite reasonable, or will be when I tighten the mountings. Yes, it has
its own preferred aiming position and it doesn't coincide with my
requirements. Yet another thing to sort. 

Should I have bought it? In retrospect I had plenty of good reasons
for refusing it and negging the seller. It is definitely more of a
project than I'd anticipated, but in a perverse way it's been fun.
When I saw the listing I was looking for something interesting, and I
don't really 'do' pristine bikes anyway, so I'm not entirely unhappy,
just a bit peeved at being taken for a ride to the tune of a few
hundred pounds - I definitely wouldn't have bid as much if the listing
hadn't been so, err, optimistic. Nor, I suspect, would the other
bidders. I've given neutral feedback, but then I'm a big softie. At 
least other buyers may get some warning. I figured that I could only 
reasonably neg the seller if I hadn't accepted the bike. Maybe that
was wrong but I'm sticking by it.

I've just discovered that a UKRM-er had put his V11 Sport up for sale
only a few months before I had the cash to buy one. If only I'd been
looking a few months ago...

-- 
-Pip

Pip Luscher  wrote:

> it was an eBay auction and you
> 'bid to buy, not haggle' as I always put on my own listings.

No, you don't. You bid according to the auction description. Not as
described, no deal.


-- 
BMW K1100LT  Ducati 750SS  Honda CB400F  Triumph Street Triple 
Suzuki TS250ER (currently Beaving)  Damn, back to five bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

On Nov 3, 9:45 pm, Pip Luscher  wrote:

<SNIP>

> Looking closer at the bike, I noticed that the odometer read 14100
> miles, not the 130000 miles indicated on the listing. Ho hum, not a
> huge difference, but still....

...a bit of a result, really. ;-)

<SNIP>

> I was beginning to
> wonder what I'd let myself in for, but it was an eBay auction and you
> 'bid to buy, not haggle' as I always put on my own listings.

Humm, you bid to buy what has been described.  From what you've said
this obviously wasn't as described... and that's based on what you
discovered at the time of collection, not what you discovered once
you'd got it home, so I'd have said you'd have been justified in
walking away from this one.

Given the seller was a trader, it might be worth getting back in touch
with him to politely relate your displeasure at what you've found
wrong with it vs the description which he'd given and you'd used to
determine as to how much hard earned you were prepared to bid on it.

--
JackH

On Nov 3, 9:45 pm, Pip Luscher  wrote:
> This is an unashamed blog.

<snip blog>

Applause!

A Great Read.

A fine and sensitive deposition on the trials and tribulations of a
committed motorcycle fettlist, resigned and reconciled to his
condition; and all that that entails.
<doffs cap>
Discount thon pernickity persons, up yonder ^^^ or down below [1], go
forth undaunted and hew that relationship betwixt man and machine
( despite the wobbliness and shedness of either) that lifts the
motorcyclist to that higher plane, regardless of his mission being in
someway, intrinsically and undeniably, bats.
AND
<gasps> On topic, an all!
I concur with 'er indoors, whoever she is, such fine prose is
undoubtedly of assistance in the reconciliation with The Road to be
Travelled, and more, tis a beacon to the rest......

[1] fuck nose wherein this thread this will appear.


Eamo

JackH wrote:
> On Nov 3, 9:45 pm, Pip Luscher  wrote:
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
>> Looking closer at the bike, I noticed that the odometer read 14100
>> miles, not the 130000 miles indicated on the listing. Ho hum, not a
>> huge difference, but still....
> 
> ...a bit of a result, really. ;-)
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
>> I was beginning to
>> wonder what I'd let myself in for, but it was an eBay auction and you
>> 'bid to buy, not haggle' as I always put on my own listings.
> 
> Humm, you bid to buy what has been described.  From what you've said
> this obviously wasn't as described... and that's based on what you
> discovered at the time of collection, not what you discovered once
> you'd got it home, so I'd have said you'd have been justified in
> walking away from this one.
> 
> Given the seller was a trader, it might be worth getting back in touch
> with him to politely relate your displeasure at what you've found
> wrong with it vs the description which he'd given and you'd used to
> determine as to how much hard earned you were prepared to bid on it.

Why on earth would anyone buy a bike sight unseen[1], which was
obviously not as described, and have the slightest inclination
to do anything other than walk away?  The harm done is certainly
not to the seller, the buyer has been put out of pocket for his
travel costs and by rights should be compensated if anyone should.

I doubt I will ever buy a bike on ebay, but if I should be
overcome by an urge to do so it will be on the terms that TOG
described.

[1] given the shitty quality of most photos on ebay[2] this
is a fair assessment.
[2] almost incomprehensible given the widespread availability
of free or minimal cost photo hosting sites.

Pip Luscher said:
<<SNIP>>
> I've given neutral feedback, but then I'm a big softie. 

Seems so, fuck me, I'd be collecting rotting dog shit, bagging it up in
a large jiffy bag and posting it to the cunt. (I'd use my own but you
know, these days, DNA evidence etc)

-- 
Donnie
Honda CB500R "Look out, Donnie's about!"
Lambretta Series 2 186cc "The Shitter"
Lambretta LD 175cc "The Chopper"

JackH said:

> On Nov 3, 9:45 pm, Pip Luscher  wrote:
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> > Looking closer at the bike, I noticed that the odometer read 14100
> > miles, not the 130000 miles indicated on the listing. Ho hum, not a
> > huge difference, but still....
> 
> ...a bit of a result, really. ;-)
> 
> <SNIP>
> 
> > I was beginning to
> > wonder what I'd let myself in for, but it was an eBay auction and
> > you 'bid to buy, not haggle' as I always put on my own listings.
> 
> Humm, you bid to buy what has been described.  From what you've said
> this obviously wasn't as described... and that's based on what you
> discovered at the time of collection, not what you discovered once
> you'd got it home, so I'd have said you'd have been justified in
> walking away from this one.
> 
> Given the seller was a trader, it might be worth getting back in touch
> with him to politely relate your displeasure at what you've found
> wrong with it vs the description which he'd given and you'd used to
> determine as to how much hard earned you were prepared to bid on it.

ummm if hes a trader and listed on ebay as a business then surely the
Distance Selling Regs are applicable?

-- 
Donnie
Honda CB500R "Look out, Donnie's about!"
Lambretta Series 2 186cc "The Shitter"
Lambretta LD 175cc "The Chopper"

"Donnie"  wrote in news:hcqgkq$pud$1@news.eternal-
september.org:

> JackH said:
> 
>> On Nov 3, 9:45 pm, Pip Luscher  wrote:
>> 
>> <SNIP>
>> 
>> > Looking closer at the bike, I noticed that the odometer read 14100
>> > miles, not the 130000 miles indicated on the listing. Ho hum, not a
>> > huge difference, but still....
>> 
>> ...a bit of a result, really. ;-)
>> 
>> <SNIP>
>> 
>> > I was beginning to
>> > wonder what I'd let myself in for, but it was an eBay auction and
>> > you 'bid to buy, not haggle' as I always put on my own listings.
>> 
>> Humm, you bid to buy what has been described.  From what you've said
>> this obviously wasn't as described... and that's based on what you
>> discovered at the time of collection, not what you discovered once
>> you'd got it home, so I'd have said you'd have been justified in
>> walking away from this one.
>> 
>> Given the seller was a trader, it might be worth getting back in touch
>> with him to politely relate your displeasure at what you've found
>> wrong with it vs the description which he'd given and you'd used to
>> determine as to how much hard earned you were prepared to bid on it.
> 
> ummm if hes a trader and listed on ebay as a business then surely the
> Distance Selling Regs are applicable?
> 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

online auctions are not covered by those regs see section 2.16 (buy it now 
*is* included)

However, the way the sale/contract is concluded is the applicable part as 
far as DSR is concerned.

As PipL completed the sale face to face then he wouldn't be covered by DSR 
even if he'd done a BIN. 



-- 
wessie at tesco dot net

BMW R1150GS

Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:

> I doubt I will ever buy a bike on ebay, but if I should be
> overcome by an urge to do so it will be on the terms that TOG
> described.

I've bought plenty, and I've walked away from a few, most recently the
XS250, simply because the description hasn't matched the reality, and
I've told the seller so.

I think buying any vehicle on eBay is a minefield, and while I'm
confident in my ability to step through unscathed, I wouldn't advise a
novice to try it.


-- 
BMW K1100LT  Ducati 750SS  Honda CB400F  Triumph Street Triple 
Suzuki TS250ER (currently Beaving)  Damn, back to five bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

In communiqué , Pip Luscher 
 cast forth these pearls of wisdom
>This is an unashamed blog. I make no apologies. It may well break the
>cardinal rule of UKRM and be boring. If you are not interested in a
>list of finding fault after fault, of pig-headed stupidity in the face
>of adversity then look away now.



<SNIP tale of triumph of hope over experience>

>
>Should I have bought it? In retrospect I had plenty of good reasons
>for refusing it and negging the seller. It is definitely more of a
>project than I'd anticipated, but in a perverse way it's been fun.
>When I saw the listing I was looking for something interesting, and I
>don't really 'do' pristine bikes anyway, so I'm not entirely unhappy,
>just a bit peeved at being taken for a ride to the tune of a few
>hundred pounds - I definitely wouldn't have bid as much if the listing
>hadn't been so, err, optimistic. Nor, I suspect, would the other
>bidders. I've given neutral feedback, but then I'm a big softie. At
>least other buyers may get some warning. I figured that I could only
>reasonably neg the seller if I hadn't accepted the bike. Maybe that
>was wrong but I'm sticking by it.
>

Blimey, and there was me feeling a bit guilty about the sticky throttle 
return on the Nordwest I sold to Simon. It is a bit of a liberty for a 
trade sale though shirley? Would it not have been covered by the same 
trade descriptions requirements of any cash sale? Our TSOs (that's 
Trading Standards Officers BTW) often up the cudgels on behalf of 
punters buying from car supermarkets who discover that they are complete 
dogs. Bit late now I suppose and you would probably have had to take it 
back to Norfolk in an attempt to get them to do repairs.

"If you are looking to reject the vehicle and claim a full refund, the 
onus is on you to prove that there is a problem with it. If you are 
claiming an alternative remedy of repair or replacement, followed by 
full or partial refund within the first six months, the onus is on the 
trader to prove that the vehicle was acceptable when it was sold and 
that it conformed to the contract. This is called the 'reversed burden 
of proof'. After six months, it is up to you to provide evidence to 
support your claim that the vehicle was defective when it was sold."

Nothing like the satisfaction from resurrecting a forlorn and neglected 
bike though eh?
-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home:   Peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk             |
| Voxan Roadster     [ SPACE ! ]             Yamaha WR250Z       |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 21:54:44 +0000, totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk (The
Older Gentleman) wrote:

>Pip Luscher  wrote:
>
>> it was an eBay auction and you
>> 'bid to buy, not haggle' as I always put on my own listings.
>
>No, you don't. You bid according to the auction description. Not as
>described, no deal.

Do you allow *any* tolerance at all, or if anything's even slightly
amiss just walk away?

I've always tended to assume *some* slack in other's listings. Oddly,
I put everything I know abut an then to agonize over having not
mentioned something very minor. After all, on a high-mileage slightly
scruffy commuter, I wouldn't mention every slight scratch. On a bike
sold as being in excellent condition, yes.

I did write it as a sort of 'as I saw it at the time' under the
influence of buyer's fever, stream of consciousness kind of thing.


-- 
-Pip

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:22:22 -0600, Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid>
wrote:

>Why on earth would anyone buy a bike sight unseen[1], which was
>obviously not as described, and have the slightest inclination
>to do anything other than walk away?  The harm done is certainly
>not to the seller, the buyer has been put out of pocket for his
>travel costs and by rights should be compensated if anyone should.

I have bought another bike unseen on ebay an R1, and it was fine. 

In this case I guess I went to collect with the view of picking it up,
with (almost) no possibility of rejecting it in mind, though as I
wrote, I did check it over briefly. 

At the time I collected it, it seemed that the listing had been
over-optimistic and there were only a couple of factual errors that
seemed relatively trivial. Perhaps I should have paid more heed to my
first impression.

-- 
-Pip

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:02:47 -0800 (PST), JackH
 wrote:

>Given the seller was a trader, it might be worth getting back in touch
>with him to politely relate your displeasure at what you've found
>wrong with it vs the description which he'd given and you'd used to
>determine as to how much hard earned you were prepared to bid on it.

I did, but by this time I'd pretty much comitted to sorting the bike
so there was little to be gained by moaning. His answer was just a
load of flannel, in essence.

Basically, I fucked up and the seller has his ill-gotten gains. The
bike was probably still a couple of hundred quid cheaper than a good
one would have gone for privately, I reckon (I paid £2160 for it) but
maybe TOG will snort derisively at that guess.

-- 
-Pip

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:36:59 +0000, Pete Fisher
 wrote:

>Blimey, and there was me feeling a bit guilty about the sticky throttle 
>return on the Nordwest I sold to Simon. It is a bit of a liberty for a 
>trade sale though shirley? Would it not have been covered by the same 
>trade descriptions requirements of any cash sale? Our TSOs (that's 
>Trading Standards Officers BTW) often up the cudgels on behalf of 
>punters buying from car supermarkets who discover that they are complete 
>dogs. Bit late now I suppose and you would probably have had to take it 
>back to Norfolk in an attempt to get them to do repairs.
>
>"If you are looking to reject the vehicle and claim a full refund, the 
>onus is on you to prove that there is a problem with it. If you are 
>claiming an alternative remedy of repair or replacement, followed by 
>full or partial refund within the first six months, the onus is on the 
>trader to prove that the vehicle was acceptable when it was sold and 
>that it conformed to the contract. This is called the 'reversed burden 
>of proof'. After six months, it is up to you to provide evidence to 
>support your claim that the vehicle was defective when it was sold."
>
>Nothing like the satisfaction from resurrecting a forlorn and neglected 
>bike though eh?

This is actually why I'm less upset than I might have been. There's
just the concern that the neglect has done longer-term damage.

-- 
-Pip

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 07:18:06 +0000, totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk (The
Older Gentleman) wrote:

snip>

>I think buying any vehicle on eBay is a minefield, and while I'm
>confident in my ability to step through unscathed, I wouldn't advise a
>novice to try it.

I bought by K100 off Ebay and didn't even go to collect it myself but
I suppose on a bike like that you know you're buying shit.

In communiqué <1j8nasl.23m04cxsww32N%totallydeadmailbox@yahoo.co.uk>, 
The Older Gentleman  cast forth these 
pearls of wisdom
>I think buying any vehicle on eBay is a minefield, and while I'm
>confident in my ability to step through unscathed, I wouldn't advise a
>novice to try it.
>
>

I've been 'lucky' with the two MX bikes I bought of Ebay for the lad. 
Surprising really, as you might think such machines would be a 
particular minefield.

GFR#2 ended up being less totally original than I had expected on 
collecting it, but it was still in remarkable overall condition for a 15 
year old sports 125 (ignoring the seizure saga which I could have 
averted by doing a proper extensive pre-flight check before really 
giving it the beans).

Nordwest#2 was pretty much the rat bike I expected, however, the value 
of the Arrows silencer it came with it made up for the low resale price 
to Simon ;-)

Not sure I would trust myself to buy anything (certainly a private sale) 
off Ebay in to a four figure price range though.

-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home:   Peter@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk             |
| Voxan Roadster     [ SPACE ! ]             Yamaha WR250Z       |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

Pip Luscher  wrote:

> >No, you don't. You bid according to the auction description. Not as
> >described, no deal.
> 
> Do you allow *any* tolerance at all, or if anything's even slightly
> amiss just walk away?
> 
> I've always tended to assume *some* slack in other's listings. 

Oh, I give some slack, yes. But there are times when people really take
the piss. The XS250, for example - the seller described the chrome as
really excellent, just one or two tiny pinpricks, and one fork stanchion
resembled a cheese grater.

And then there was the oil leak. "Oh, I hadn't noticed that..."

Sellers need to remember that buyers are relying on their decription,
pix and honesty, and saying something like: "Well, that fault wasn't
mentioned in the description, and it is a 10 year-old bike, so you can't
complain" is unacceptable.


-- 
BMW K1100LT  Ducati 750SS  Honda CB400F  Triumph Street Triple 
Suzuki TS250ER (currently Beaving)  Damn, back to five bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com