I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work and 
paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel the 
commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the advance 
and intend following the small claims court procedure.

My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the 
defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one 
presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his 
girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that she 
has acted as a banker for him?

Many thanks.

"Trent SC" <invalid@bogoff.invalid> wrote in message 
news:SrednS1UGsv61k_VnZ2dnUVZ8uKdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work and
> paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel the
> commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the advance
> and intend following the small claims court procedure.
>
> My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the
> defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one
> presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his
> girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that she
> has acted as a banker for him?

I think in your position I would plead that you paid the money to her as his 
agent, and wait to see if he files a defence denying that he had the money - 
if so, you probably have no alternative but to amend and add her as a second 
defendant.

But if there is time and he is likely to answer letters, you should send a 
letter before action asking him to confirm that he received the advance and 
pointing out that if he does not give that confirmation, she will have to be 
involved in the proceedings.

>I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work and
> paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel the
> commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the advance
> and intend following the small claims court procedure.
>
> My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the
> defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one
> presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his
> girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that she
> has acted as a banker for him?
>
> Many thanks.

Apologies for adding to my own post - I forgot to ask a supplementary...

Amongst the debts outstanding is one for a web domain which I registered for 
this colleague.  Am I within my rights to "switch off" the domain - and 
effectively take his website offline - until the account is settled in full? 
The website files will not be affected, but users will not be able to reach 
the site.

>>I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work and
>> paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel 
>> the
>> commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the 
>> advance
>> and intend following the small claims court procedure.
>>
>> My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the
>> defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one
>> presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his
>> girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that 
>> she
>> has acted as a banker for him?
>
> I think in your position I would plead that you paid the money to her as 
> his
> agent, and wait to see if he files a defence denying that he had the 
> money -
> if so, you probably have no alternative but to amend and add her as a 
> second
> defendant.
>
> But if there is time and he is likely to answer letters, you should send a
> letter before action asking him to confirm that he received the advance 
> and
> pointing out that if he does not give that confirmation, she will have to 
> be
> involved in the proceedings.

Thanks for the quick response.  He's never denied that he received the money 
and I've never had cause to believe that she didn't pass it straight on to 
him; does that mean I can't include the girlfriend?

"Trent SC" <invalid@bogoff.invalid> wrote in message 
news:DfqdnYPbDbbIzk_VRVnyjgA@posted.plusnet...
> >I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work and
>> paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel 
>> the
>> commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the 
>> advance
>> and intend following the small claims court procedure.
>>
>> My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the
>> defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one
>> presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his
>> girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that 
>> she
>> has acted as a banker for him?
>>
>> Many thanks.
>
> Apologies for adding to my own post - I forgot to ask a supplementary...
>
> Amongst the debts outstanding is one for a web domain which I registered 
> for
> this colleague.  Am I within my rights to "switch off" the domain - and
> effectively take his website offline - until the account is settled in 
> full?
> The website files will not be affected, but users will not be able to 
> reach
> the site.

I don't know, and I would guess that nobody really knows.  Ideally, your 
contract with him would have stipulated that ownership would not pass to him 
until your charges have been paid.  Otherwise, I think you would be placing 
yourself in breach of contract and weakening your position.

>> >I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work 
>> >and
>>> paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel
>>> the
>>> commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the
>>> advance
>>> and intend following the small claims court procedure.
>>>
>>> My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the
>>> defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one
>>> presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his
>>> girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that
>>> she
>>> has acted as a banker for him?
>>>
>>> Many thanks.
>>
>> Apologies for adding to my own post - I forgot to ask a supplementary...
>>
>> Amongst the debts outstanding is one for a web domain which I registered
>> for
>> this colleague.  Am I within my rights to "switch off" the domain - and
>> effectively take his website offline - until the account is settled in
>> full?
>> The website files will not be affected, but users will not be able to
>> reach
>> the site.
>
> I don't know, and I would guess that nobody really knows.  Ideally, your
> contract with him would have stipulated that ownership would not pass to 
> him
> until your charges have been paid.  Otherwise, I think you would be 
> placing
> yourself in breach of contract and weakening your position.

Ah, the benefits of hindsight!  The conversation wet along the lines of "I'm 
a bit skint this week and I need to register this domain today - can you 
register this domain for me and point the nameservers to XXX?  Cheers, I'll 
settle up with you soon."

That's unfortunately the extent of any agreement we have on that domain.  He 
never paid, and the main project went t**ts-up shortly after that.  I've 
left the domain as-is until now, but I might suggest to him that unless he 
settles all accounts in full in 14 days, I'll suspend the domain on the same 
day that I go to the county court.

"Trent SC" <invalid@bogoff.invalid> wrote in message 
news:lsednTejjuaFyE_VnZ2dnUVZ8uKdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work and
>>> paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel
>>> the
>>> commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the
>>> advance
>>> and intend following the small claims court procedure.
>>>
>>> My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the
>>> defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one
>>> presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his
>>> girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that
>>> she
>>> has acted as a banker for him?
>>
>> I think in your position I would plead that you paid the money to her as
>> his
>> agent, and wait to see if he files a defence denying that he had the
>> money -
>> if so, you probably have no alternative but to amend and add her as a
>> second
>> defendant.
>>
>> But if there is time and he is likely to answer letters, you should send 
>> a
>> letter before action asking him to confirm that he received the advance
>> and
>> pointing out that if he does not give that confirmation, she will have to
>> be
>> involved in the proceedings.
>
> Thanks for the quick response.  He's never denied that he received the 
> money
> and I've never had cause to believe that she didn't pass it straight on to
> him; does that mean I can't include the girlfriend?

Are you saying that you *want* to include the girlfriend? In general it is 
best to keep things as simple and as cheap as possible. If you sue her, 
there is a risk she could get a costs order against you. It is necessary to 
show that her involvement is essential.

>> Amongst the debts outstanding is one for a web domain which I registered 
>> for
>> this colleague.  Am I within my rights to "switch off" the domain - and
>> effectively take his website offline - until the account is settled in 
>> full?
>> The website files will not be affected, but users will not be able to 
>> reach
>> the site.
> 
> I don't know, and I would guess that nobody really knows.  Ideally, your 
> contract with him would have stipulated that ownership would not pass to him 
> until your charges have been paid.  Otherwise, I think you would be placing 
> yourself in breach of contract and weakening your position. 

In the early days of computing there was a case of a system being 
remotely disabled when the suppliers weren't paid. IIRC the decision 
went against the supplier, but that's just my unreliable recollection 
and I can't find any references to it.

>>>>I am in dispute with a former colleague to whom I had given some work 
>>>>and
>>>> paid in advance.  The work was not done and it was necessary to cancel
>>>> the
>>>> commission and place it elsewhere.  I am seeking the return of the
>>>> advance
>>>> and intend following the small claims court procedure.
>>>>
>>>> My question is this: for previous projects, I paid the funds into the
>>>> defendant's girlfriend's account (he had financial troubles and, one
>>>> presumes, wished to avoid the attentions of HMCE).  Can I include his
>>>> girlfriend in the county court papers, as it's clear from history that
>>>> she
>>>> has acted as a banker for him?
>>>
>>> I think in your position I would plead that you paid the money to her as
>>> his
>>> agent, and wait to see if he files a defence denying that he had the
>>> money -
>>> if so, you probably have no alternative but to amend and add her as a
>>> second
>>> defendant.
>>>
>>> But if there is time and he is likely to answer letters, you should send
>>> a
>>> letter before action asking him to confirm that he received the advance
>>> and
>>> pointing out that if he does not give that confirmation, she will have 
>>> to
>>> be
>>> involved in the proceedings.
>>
>> Thanks for the quick response.  He's never denied that he received the
>> money
>> and I've never had cause to believe that she didn't pass it straight on 
>> to
>> him; does that mean I can't include the girlfriend?
>
> Are you saying that you *want* to include the girlfriend? In general it is
> best to keep things as simple and as cheap as possible. If you sue her,
> there is a risk she could get a costs order against you. It is necessary 
> to
> show that her involvement is essential.

He's a flake and she isn't, so my thinking is that if I include her in the 
claim, it'll probably get settled a great deal more quickly.  Assuming, of 
course, that including her is legit.