Anyone know how a case like this might get decided?

An employee is on a salary and bonus contact. The targets to get the 
bonus are subject to change at any time, at the employers whim.

Employee is given a target, which they manage to meet enough to merit a 
particular payment. Employee then leaves the company. In the time 
between employee leaving and bonus payment date company changes the 
bonus targets such that employee no longer qualifies for as much 
payment. Is employee entitles to original or revised payment?

One other complication - the time delay between leaving and payment 
means that the time limit for employment tribunal claims is over, is 
this likely to be a problem?

In news:PM6dnSr89MpoUlXVRVnyuAA@pipex.net,
a@b.invalid opined:
> Anyone know how a case like this might get decided?
>
> An employee is on a salary and bonus contact. The targets to get the
> bonus are subject to change at any time, at the employers whim.
>
> Employee is given a target, which they manage to meet enough to merit
> a particular payment. Employee then leaves the company. In the time
> between employee leaving and bonus payment date company changes the
> bonus targets such that employee no longer qualifies for as much
> payment. Is employee entitles to original or revised payment?
>
> One other complication - the time delay between leaving and payment
> means that the time limit for employment tribunal claims is over, is
> this likely to be a problem?

I'm not an employument expert, but it sounds like a breach of the duty of 
trust and confidence between employer and employee. If the tribunal limit 
has passed you may need to claim in the County Court - but does the tribunal 
time limit apply to cliams for unlaful deduction of wages?

Chris R

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:30:08 +0100, Chris R wrote:

> In news:PM6dnSr89MpoUlXVRVnyuAA@pipex.net, a@b.invalid opined:
>> Anyone know how a case like this might get decided?
>>
>> An employee is on a salary and bonus contact. The targets to get the
>> bonus are subject to change at any time, at the employers whim.
>>
>> Employee is given a target, which they manage to meet enough to merit a
>> particular payment. Employee then leaves the company. In the time
>> between employee leaving and bonus payment date company changes the
>> bonus targets such that employee no longer qualifies for as much
>> payment. Is employee entitles to original or revised payment?
>>
>> One other complication - the time delay between leaving and payment
>> means that the time limit for employment tribunal claims is over, is
>> this likely to be a problem?
> 
> I'm not an employument expert, but it sounds like a breach of the duty
> of trust and confidence between employer and employee. If the tribunal
> limit has passed you may need to claim in the County Court - but does
> the tribunal time limit apply to cliams for unlaful deduction of wages?
> 

The bonus scheme my company runs explicitly says the bonus is entirely at 
their discretion. It also says you must be an employee on the nominated 
bonus payment date to get it at all - so in the above situation I'd 
expect, and get, nothing.

On Sep 11, 9:50 pm, PCPaul  wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:30:08 +0100, Chris R wrote:
> > Innews:PM6dnSr89MpoUlXVRVnyuAA@pipex.net, a...@b.invalid opined:
> >> Anyone know how a case like this might get decided?
>
> >> An employee is on a salary and bonus contact. The targets to get the
> >> bonus are subject to change at any time, at the employers whim.
>
> >> Employee is given a target, which they manage to meet enough to merit a
> >> particular payment. Employee then leaves the company. In the time
> >> between employee leaving and bonus payment date company changes the
> >> bonus targets such that employee no longer qualifies for as much
> >> payment. Is employee entitles to original or revised payment?
>
> >> One other complication - the time delay between leaving and payment
> >> means that the time limit for employment tribunal claims is over, is
> >> this likely to be a problem?
>
> > I'm not an employument expert, but it sounds like a breach of the duty
> > of trust and confidence between employer and employee. If the tribunal
> > limit has passed you may need to claim in the County Court - but does
> > the tribunal time limit apply to cliams for unlaful deduction of wages?
>
> The bonus scheme my company runs explicitly says the bonus is entirely at
> their discretion. It also says you must be an employee on the nominated
> bonus payment date to get it at all - so in the above situation I'd
> expect, and get, nothing.

If you had left the company before the bonus was paid, or would
ordinarily have been paid, then I submit you will be due nothing.

> If you had left the company before the bonus was paid, or would
> ordinarily have been paid, then I submit you will be due nothing.

The previous two posters, I suspect, have no experience of big money 
bonuses. This may help:
http://www.cityjobs.com/home/discretionary_bonuses.html

In the particular instance I'm asking about this is a distraction 
because the bonus is part of the employment contract.

> bonuses. This may help:
> http://www.cityjobs.com/home/discretionary_bonuses.html

and also

http://www.roydens.co.uk/content04.htm

a@b.invalid wrote:
>> If you had left the company before the bonus was paid, or would
>> ordinarily have been paid, then I submit you will be due nothing.
>
> The previous two posters, I suspect, have no experience of big money
> bonuses. This may help:
> http://www.cityjobs.com/home/discretionary_bonuses.html
>
> In the particular instance I'm asking about this is a distraction
> because the bonus is part of the employment contract.

Exactly.  It's purely a matter of contract law, for which we need to know 
exactly what the contract says about the payment of any bonus.  If that just 
refers to some other policy document, then we need to know what that says 
exactly, and so on.

However, it is wholly unreasonable that targets should have been set (where, 
and in what terms?) for the payment of a bonus then, when they have already 
been met, be revised so that the expected bonus is not paid.  It's 
fundamental that the contract is what it was at the time the work was done 
and cannot be unilaterally revised to have retrospective effect.