Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
front door.

I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
with a tiled floor..  

Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
in operation here?

David

On 23 Jul, 15:10, David J <da...@btelecom.invalid> wrote:

> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
> in operation here?

Yes, the principle that when on private property the owner may make
whatever rules he or she wishes, so long as they are not racist,
sexist etc.  Not permitting dogs (which may soil the place or leave
hairs all over it, or intimidate other customers who do not like dogs)
is an entirely reasonable rule, except when it comes to guide dogs
which you tend to find are permitted in such instances.

Not "jobsworth", IOW, but a reasonable condition of entry, just as it
would equally apply to my house that you don't bring your dog in
because I don't want the smell and hairs everywhere.

Neil

David J wrote:
> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
> front door.
> 
> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
> with a tiled floor..  
> 
> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
> in operation here?
> 
> David
> 

There is no law preventing them from prohibiting dogs provided they 
don't fall foul of any other law (discrimination laws etc).

David J wrote:
> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
> front door.
> 
> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
> with a tiled floor..  
> 
> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
> in operation here?
> 
> David
> 
It could be that they have their own dog which reacts badly to other 
dogs being brought into the PO?

-- 
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious 
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

David J  typed:
> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
> front door.
>
> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
> with a tiled floor..
>
> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
> in operation here?

They probably got sick of clearing up after little 'accidents' ... and also 
have a care for Health and Safety and responsibility.  If a dog does have an 
accident and someone slips on it before it's cleared up who's to blame?  Who 
will pay the compensation which will almost certainly be sought?

I'd doubt there's a law against it, but it's their PO and they can make the 
rules about how much trade they want to potentially turn away, I guess.

IANAL ......... :)

-- 
Dogpoop
http://www.glass-uk.org/
"You would probably do better not to bother with renewable
energy"  Doug, UK.Transport 29/04/2008 08:53.

"Dogpoop"  wrote in message 
news:yjHhk.1005$PL3.306@newsfe12.ams2...
> David J  typed:
>> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
>> front door.
>>
>> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
>> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
>> with a tiled floor..
>>
>> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
>> in operation here?
>
> They probably got sick of clearing up after little 'accidents' ... and 
> also
> have a care for Health and Safety and responsibility.  If a dog does have 
> an
> accident and someone slips on it before it's cleared up who's to blame? 
> Who
> will pay the compensation which will almost certainly be sought?
>
> I'd doubt there's a law against it, but it's their PO and they can make 
> the
> rules about how much trade they want to potentially turn away, I guess.
>
> IANAL ......... :)
>
Very little trade would be lost seeing as most owners would just tie up 
their animals outside.  I think there are very few dog-friendly POs, except 
perhaps in very remote locations (which have probably been closed now).

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:05:04 +0100, Dave  wrote:

>David J wrote:
>> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
>> front door.
>> 
>> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
>> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
>> with a tiled floor..  
>> 
>> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
>> in operation here?
>> 
>> David
>> 
>
>There is no law preventing them from prohibiting dogs provided they 
>don't fall foul of any other law (discrimination laws etc).


But this is not a 'private shop cum post office'..  It is a Post
Office plus sorting office owned by the Post Office. Staffed by PO
employees.

Maybe the PO have a bye-law?

David

"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message 
news:lk6f841r1tb0m4njhub8m4kdcpdt7vmk5r@4ax.com...
>
> But this is not a 'private shop cum post office'..  It is a Post
> Office plus sorting office owned by the Post Office. Staffed by PO
> employees.
>
> Maybe the PO have a bye-law?
>
Why would the PO need a bye-law?  Just beacuse it's owned by the PO doesn't 
make it any less private property.

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:10:05 +0100, "mert1639"
 wrote:

>
>"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message 
>news:lk6f841r1tb0m4njhub8m4kdcpdt7vmk5r@4ax.com...
>>
>> But this is not a 'private shop cum post office'..  It is a Post
>> Office plus sorting office owned by the Post Office. Staffed by PO
>> employees.
>>
>> Maybe the PO have a bye-law?
>>
>Why would the PO need a bye-law?  Just beacuse it's owned by the PO doesn't 
>make it any less private property. 

So if it not corporate policy, it must be up to the individual
postmaster to make up what rules he feels like about the use of the
premises...?

In article , David J
<david@btelecom.invalid> writes
>On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:05:04 +0100, Dave  wrote:
>
>>David J wrote:
>>> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
>>> front door.
>>> 
>>> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
>>> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
>>> with a tiled floor..  
>>> 
>>> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
>>> in operation here?
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>>
>>There is no law preventing them from prohibiting dogs provided they 
>>don't fall foul of any other law (discrimination laws etc).
>
>
>But this is not a 'private shop cum post office'..  It is a Post
>Office plus sorting office owned by the Post Office. Staffed by PO
>employees.
>
>Maybe the PO have a bye-law?

Maybe it is to avoid problems with the sorting office cat?

(Certainly, in the past, the GPO had official cats 'on the payroll' to
prevent mice from nibbling the mail)
-- 
Chris Holford

"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message 
news:pmif84l19e8jdptvn7k50hlk35pkj62utd@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:10:05 +0100, "mert1639"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>>"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:lk6f841r1tb0m4njhub8m4kdcpdt7vmk5r@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> But this is not a 'private shop cum post office'..  It is a Post
>>> Office plus sorting office owned by the Post Office. Staffed by PO
>>> employees.
>>>
>>> Maybe the PO have a bye-law?
>>>
>>Why would the PO need a bye-law?  Just beacuse it's owned by the PO 
>>doesn't
>>make it any less private property.
>
> So if it not corporate policy, it must be up to the individual
> postmaster to make up what rules he feels like about the use of the
> premises...?

Post Offices are now run by a limited company, so they could have a 
corporate policy without it being a bye-law

Colin Bignell

On 24 Jul, 01:25, David J <da...@btelecom.invalid> wrote:

> So if it not corporate policy, it must be up to the individual
> postmaster to make up what rules he feels like about the use of the
> premises...?

Given that many Post Offices are sort-of franchises, that would seem
within his remit.

Neil

In message <g685ih$e0r$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk>, 
mert1639  writes
>>
>Very little trade would be lost seeing as most owners would just tie up
>their animals outside.  I think there are very few dog-friendly POs, except
>perhaps in very remote locations (which have probably been closed now).
>
I'm a sub postmaster in a rural location (NE Scotland), and the PO is 
still open.  Well, just about.  Yes, dogs are welcome, but I do worry 
slightly, sometimes.  Most owners are responsible, and keep their dog on 
a short lead, whereas others don't, and dogs do have a habit of 
investigating anyone else in the PO.  Most people don't mind, but there 
will come a time when someone who just doesn't like dogs will complain. 
You can't please all of the people all of the time ...
-- 
Graeme

David J  typed:
> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
> front door.
>
> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
> with a tiled floor..
>
> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
> in operation here?

Having read the thread, and replied, I'm just wondering if you have an issue 
with the PO for this?

-- 
Dogpoop
http://www.glass-uk.org/
"You would probably do better not to bother with renewable
energy"  Doug, UK.Transport 29/04/2008 08:53.

In message <+E5GjKAEX9hIFwk0@brownswell2.demon.co.uk>, Chris Holford 
 writes
>In article , David J
><david@btelecom.invalid> writes
>>
>>Maybe the PO have a bye-law?
>
>Maybe it is to avoid problems with the sorting office cat?
>
>(Certainly, in the past, the GPO had official cats 'on the payroll' to
>prevent mice from nibbling the mail)

<Grin>  My cat enjoys sniffing around the sorting office, but I don't 
think he has caught anything in there, yet.

There has been discussion regarding the PO, and whether or not it is 
owned by the PO, whether the staff are PO employees etc.  There are two 
types of PO.  Crown offices are owned by the PO - the business, the 
premises, the staff.  Staff will be a manager and others, all direct 
employees of PO Limited.

A sub post office is owned by the sub postmaster, who provides the 
premises to PO Ltd.  The vast majority of sub postmasters are self 
employed.  Any staff are employees of the sub postmaster, not PO Ltd.
A sub PO may or may not have a delivery office attached, for Royal Mail 
use.  Note, these are delivery offices, not sorting offices, even though 
mail may be sorted, in a delivery office.  The postmen are direct 
employees of Royal Mail.  The premises are provided by the sub PO to PO 
Limited, who then provide them to Royal Mail.  There are no formal 
leases, as such.

-- 
Graeme

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:45:07 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
wrote:

>David J  typed:
>> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
>> front door.
>>
>> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
>> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
>> with a tiled floor..
>>
>> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
>> in operation here?
>
>Having read the thread, and replied, I'm just wondering if you have an issue 
>with the PO for this?

Of course I have an issue - I was recently told to remove my dog from
the PO by a middle-aged twat wearing an earing....  Later in the week
I watched him chatting to a 'mate' at the counter who had - yes, a
dog!


You pondered.

"If a dog does have an accident and someone slips on it before it's
cleared up who's to blame?  Who will pay the compensation which will
almost certainly be sought?"

Presumably the dog owner.  Who is responsible if that happens on the
pavement?  Not the LA, I'm sure.

"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message 
news:h4bh84p3ul2d3ijuccqraj8hlkknhsjg1m@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:45:07 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
> wrote:
>
>>David J  typed:
>>> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
>>> front door.
>>>
>>> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
>>> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
>>> with a tiled floor..
>>>
>>> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
>>> in operation here?
>>
>>Having read the thread, and replied, I'm just wondering if you have an 
>>issue
>>with the PO for this?
>
> Of course I have an issue - I was recently told to remove my dog from
> the PO by a middle-aged twat wearing an earing....  Later in the week
> I watched him chatting to a 'mate' at the counter who had - yes, a
> dog!
>
Then I'd done one of three things:
(a) stop using that PO and go elsewhere.
(b) find out if the bloke in question was the postmater or not.  If he 
wasn't you could try getting in touch with the postmaster
(c) write to the head office of Post Office Limited and see what they say, 
although I suspect they'd just reffer you the the postmaster.

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:35:04 퍝, "mert1639"
 wrote:

>
>"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message 
>news:h4bh84p3ul2d3ijuccqraj8hlkknhsjg1m@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:45:07 퍝, "Dogpoop" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>David J  typed:
>>>> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
>>>> front door.
>>>>
>>>> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
>>>> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
>>>> with a tiled floor..
>>>>
>>>> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
>>>> in operation here?
>>>
>>>Having read the thread, and replied, I'm just wondering if you have an 
>>>issue
>>>with the PO for this?
>>
>> Of course I have an issue - I was recently told to remove my dog from
>> the PO by a middle-aged twat wearing an earing....  Later in the week
>> I watched him chatting to a 'mate' at the counter who had - yes, a
>> dog!
>>
>Then I'd done one of three things:
>(a) stop using that PO and go elsewhere.
>(b) find out if the bloke in question was the postmater or not.  If he 
>wasn't you could try getting in touch with the postmaster
>(c) write to the head office of Post Office Limited and see what they say, 
>although I suspect they'd just reffer you the the postmaster. 
>


Hi - as it happens, since my original post, I have just done (c),
already knowing (b).


I got this reply.  Well, at least I know now.

Dear Mr ...

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately it is not Post Office Ltd policy to allow any dogs
except guide dogs into Post Office branches.

If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to
contact us again.  Please reply via the website www.postoffice.co.uk
as a reply sent to any other email address will not receive a
response.

If you need any further help with Post Office® products and services,
you can call 0845 722 33 44 between 8.15 am and 6 pm Monday to Friday,
and 8.30 am to 5.30 pm on Saturday.  You can also access information
at www.postoffice.co.uk, the official Post Office® website.

Kind Regards

Yvonne Leadbeater

Customer Service Advisor.

Telephone: 08457 22 33 44

Textphone : 08457 22 33 55 (For the Deaf and Hard of Hearing)

"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message 
news:78ru84ha2ffk1hbflv33ber5ojpot859bp@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:35:04 +0100, "mert1639"
 wrote:

>
>"David J" <david@btelecom.invalid> wrote in message
>news:h4bh84p3ul2d3ijuccqraj8hlkknhsjg1m@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:45:07 +0100, "Dogpoop" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>David J  typed:
>>>> Our local Post Office has a small 'Dogs Not Allowed' sign on it's
>>>> front door.
>>>>
>>>> I can understand this where food & drink is for sale, or is being
>>>> consumed - Health & Safety rules, etc. But this is just a Post Office
>>>> with a tiled floor..
>>>>
>>>> Is this just a jobsworth flaunting his power, or is there a valid law
>>>> in operation here?
>>>
>>>Having read the thread, and replied, I'm just wondering if you have an
>>>issue
>>>with the PO for this?
>>
>> Of course I have an issue - I was recently told to remove my dog from
>> the PO by a middle-aged twat wearing an earing....  Later in the week
>> I watched him chatting to a 'mate' at the counter who had - yes, a
>> dog!
>>
>Then I'd done one of three things:
>(a) stop using that PO and go elsewhere.
>(b) find out if the bloke in question was the postmater or not.  If he
>wasn't you could try getting in touch with the postmaster
>(c) write to the head office of Post Office Limited and see what they say,
>although I suspect they'd just reffer you the the postmaster.
>


Hi - as it happens, since my original post, I have just done (c),
already knowing (b).


I got this reply.  Well, at least I know now.

Dear Mr ...

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately it is not Post Office Ltd policy to allow any dogs
except guide dogs into Post Office branches.

If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to
contact us again.  Please reply via the website www.postoffice.co.uk
as a reply sent to any other email address will not receive a
response.

If you need any further help with Post Office® products and services,
you can call 0845 722 33 44 between 8.15 am and 6 pm Monday to Friday,
and 8.30 am to 5.30 pm on Saturday.  You can also access information
at www.postoffice.co.uk, the official Post Office® website.

Kind Regards

Yvonne Leadbeater

Customer Service Advisor.

Telephone: 08457 22 33 44

Textphone : 08457 22 33 55 (For the Deaf and Hard of Hearing)


As a customer of a shop/ bank/post office, I do not want a dog around my 
feet. I applaud businesses for asking that they should be left outside.

John wrote:
> As a customer of a shop/ bank/post office, I do not want a dog around my 
> feet. I applaud businesses for asking that they should be left outside.

As a customer, and also a former shop worker, I would much rather have 
dogs in the shop and ban children. The dogs are less likely to scream / 
pee / break or steal things than children.

The ECHR is fundamentally speciesist.

Owain

On 2008-07-30, Owain wrote:

> The ECHR is fundamentally speciesist.

I think that's what the "H" stands for.