On Tue,  1 Jul 2008 13:50:06 +0100, "The Todal" 
wrote:

>Huntley presumably kept his perversions to himself and didn't share them. 
>Hindley liked to pose in photographs above the children's graves, and 
>recorded Lesley Ann Downey's pleas to go home and also a separate 
>conversation with a neighbour about the newspaper report of a missing child. 
>So evidently Hindley derived some pleasure from recording what she had been 
>involved in, possibly to share only with Brady. 

For some reason many people are unable to distinguish between a person
who likes to carry out sexual acts with children and people who like
to physically torture and kill children.

It is akin to thinking that all mheterosexual men are wife-beaters and
murderers.

-- 
Cynic

"Cynic"  wrote in message 
news:ignu74dv5doce7vh2sr1tb64k5v6hh6u8g@4ax.com...
> On Tue,  1 Jul 2008 13:50:06 +0100, "The Todal" 
> wrote:
>
>>Huntley presumably kept his perversions to himself and didn't share them.
>>Hindley liked to pose in photographs above the children's graves, and
>>recorded Lesley Ann Downey's pleas to go home and also a separate
>>conversation with a neighbour about the newspaper report of a missing 
>>child.
>>So evidently Hindley derived some pleasure from recording what she had 
>>been
>>involved in, possibly to share only with Brady.
>
> For some reason many people are unable to distinguish between a person
> who likes to carry out sexual acts with children and people who like
> to physically torture and kill children.
>
> It is akin to thinking that all mheterosexual men are wife-beaters and
> murderers.

I agree with you that sexual acts do not necessarily equate to torture and 
killing. However, sometimes they do.  Fred West subjected his victims to 
sadistic sexual acts before killing them.

In the case of Hindley there is really no evidence that she carried out 
sexual acts with children or that she tortured or killed them.  She was 
there when Brady took indecent photos of Lesley-Ann Downey, and perhaps got 
a kick out of witnessing that.  She helped him bury the bodies, if only by 
driving the car.

However, I think (others may disagree) that if there are still indecent 
photographs of Lesley-Ann Downey in circulation somewhere, as I suppose 
there might be, it would be preposterous to suggest that anyone who had a 
copy was an accomplice to her murder, or indeed had done her any harm at 
all.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:50:09 +0100, "The Todal" 
wrote:

>I agree with you that sexual acts do not necessarily equate to torture and 
>killing. However, sometimes they do.  Fred West subjected his victims to 
>sadistic sexual acts before killing them.

Certainly - just as sexual acts with adult women do not necessarily
equate to their torture and killing.  However sometimes they do.  I am
sure you don't need me to quote numerous examples from Jack the Ripper
backwards.

My argument was that the mention of child pornography caused you to to
come up with the extremely rare cases of such crimes as if they were
somehow typical of child pornographers.

It is similar to me raising the exploits of Bonnie and Clyde in a
discussion about car theft as if the typical car thief is at all
similar because Bonnie and Clyde also stole cars.

-- 
Cynic

Cynic wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:50:09 +0100, "The Todal" 
> wrote:
> 
>> I agree with you that sexual acts do not necessarily equate to torture and 
>> killing. However, sometimes they do.  Fred West subjected his victims to 
>> sadistic sexual acts before killing them.
> 
> Certainly - just as sexual acts with adult women do not necessarily
> equate to their torture and killing.  However sometimes they do.  I am
> sure you don't need me to quote numerous examples from Jack the Ripper
> backwards.
> 
> My argument was that the mention of child pornography caused you to to
> come up with the extremely rare cases of such crimes as if they were
> somehow typical of child pornographers.
> 
> It is similar to me raising the exploits of Bonnie and Clyde in a
> discussion about car theft as if the typical car thief is at all
> similar because Bonnie and Clyde also stole cars.
> 


Except that, IIUC, the material at issue is downloaded images. I'm not 
aware of many feature films showing a "typical car thief" at work.

Presumably perverts get bored the same as anyone else. Although some may 
think that they deserve rather more than the rest (and with the drill 
set on slow speed).

--
Sue

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:50:08 +0100, Palindrome 
wrote:

>> Certainly - just as sexual acts with adult women do not necessarily
>> equate to their torture and killing.  However sometimes they do.  I am
>> sure you don't need me to quote numerous examples from Jack the Ripper
>> backwards.
 
>> My argument was that the mention of child pornography caused you to to
>> come up with the extremely rare cases of such crimes as if they were
>> somehow typical of child pornographers.
 
>> It is similar to me raising the exploits of Bonnie and Clyde in a
>> discussion about car theft as if the typical car thief is at all
>> similar because Bonnie and Clyde also stole cars.

>Except that, IIUC, the material at issue is downloaded images. I'm not 
>aware of many feature films showing a "typical car thief" at work.

Oh, that stuff is readily available - and perfectly legal to download.
Many criminals video themselves committing crimes these days.
Remember "happy slapping"?  You can also see CCTV footage of car
thieves and other criminals in action on the many "police reality" TV
programs.

A thread in the other place described a chap getting an ASBO for
putting videos onto Utube that showed him committing various crimes.
Don't you think it would be grossly OTT to lump that person together
with the animals who videoed the murder of Ken Bigley?

>Presumably perverts get bored the same as anyone else. Although some may 
>think that they deserve rather more than the rest (and with the drill 
>set on slow speed).

People who view adult porn also presumably get bored the same as
anyone else.  Which does not mean that they would particularly welcome
images of Jack the Ripper's handiwork, or that adult pornographers are
likely to progress to committing torture or murder - or even rape.

Child abuse is bad enough without needing to over-egg the pudding by
presenting the most horrific type as if it were representative of the
typical sort.

-- 
Cynic