Can anyone tell me where I should start looking for records of a
lawsuit in Scotland during the first half of the 19th century? I know
next to nothing about this topic, so any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!


John

"John R. Yamamoto-Wilson"  wrote in message 
news:3090ad36-77db-48a4-bcf2-a6c9b3aa8a76@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Can anyone tell me where I should start looking for records of a
> lawsuit in Scotland during the first half of the 19th century? I know
> next to nothing about this topic, so any help would be appreciated.

Have you tried looking in the 19th century?

I wrote:

> > Can anyone tell me where I should start looking for records of a
> > lawsuit in Scotland during the first half of the 19th century? I know
> > next to nothing about this topic, so any help would be appreciated.

Some wag replied:

> Have you tried looking in the 19th century?

No. The buses in my area don't go there.

Thanks for your help, though.

John

On 1 Sep, 13:20, "John R. Yamamoto-Wilson" 
wrote:
> Can anyone tell me where I should start looking for records of a
> lawsuit in Scotland during the first half of the 19th century? I know
> next to nothing about this topic, so any help would be appreciated.
>

What do you know about it? Eg, do you know what court or roughly when?

Francis

On 1 Sep, 13:20, "John R. Yamamoto-Wilson" 
wrote:
> Can anyone tell me where I should start looking for records of a
> lawsuit in Scotland during the first half of the 19th century? I know
> next to nothing about this topic, so any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you!
>
> John

I've replied on alt.uk.law to a copy of your message which appeared
there:-

Do you have the case references? If so, you need access to the annual
case volumes or some database of them. From 1821 to 1906 the session
case references would be of the form (1840) 12 D 134 which would be
the year 1840, volume 12, volume edited by (D)unlop, page 134.
Depends
what library resources or databases you have access to - I'm not sure
if there is any free internet resource for cases this far back, and
whilst I've seen passing reference to commercial databases which
include cases back to 1870s, I don't know if there are any others that
go back further.

Each book volume also has a subject index and a name index, so
preumably if you have the year and the litigant names it can be traced
from that. Not too sure of what's available, if anything, before
1821.

Unless of course they are case with some landmark consequences where
googling might get you some info. Otherwise, if it's one case or a
particular few cases you need details of, rather than general access
to the case records, perhaps one of the law libraries in Scotland
could help you.


Toom

Francis wrote:

> What do you know about it? Eg, do you know what court or roughly when?

All I know is that it involved the Webster family (there were several
illustrious Websters in Edinburgh in the 18th century, a couple of
whom make it into the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography), and is
referred to as a "ruinous lawsuit" that left the surviving members of
the family destitute.

One of them was a little-known but quite interesting novelist of the
period, and I'm trying to find out a bit more about her life. She was
born in the early years of the century, and her first novel came out
in the 1840s. I'm guessing (on the basis of some letters and other
material written by and to her) that her economic difficulties
probably date from about the same time or perhaps a little earlier
(1830s).

One of her novels is actually entitled "The Disputed Inheritance", and
I suspect that the lawsuit that altered her economic circumstances is
of a similar nature. What I don't know, however, is how to set about
finding out about it!

Thanks,

John

Toom wrote:

> Do you have the case references? If so, you need access to the annual
> case volumes or some database of them. From 1821 to 1906 the session
> case references would be of the form (1840) 12 D 134 which would be
> the year 1840, volume 12, volume edited by (D)unlop, page 134.
> Depends
> what library resources or databases you have access to - I'm not sure
> if there is any free internet resource for cases this far back, and
> whilst I've seen passing reference to commercial databases which
> include cases back to 1870s, I don't know if there are any others that
> go back further.
>
> Each book volume also has a subject index and a name index, so
> preumably if you have the year and the litigant names it can be traced
> from that. Not too sure of what's available, if anything, before
> 1821.
>
> Unless of course they are case with some landmark consequences where
> googling might get you some info. Otherwise, if it's one case or a
> particular few cases you need details of, rather than general access
> to the case records, perhaps one of the law libraries in Scotland
> could help you.

Thank you for your reply here and on alt.uk.law. Yes, it's just one
case I need details of, probably Edinburgh, probably 1830s or 40s. As
I say, for the next few days I have access to world-class resources,
but no idea how to use them!

Thanks again,

John

On 5 Sep, 10:55, "John R. Yamamoto-Wilson" 
wrote:
>
> Thank you for your reply here and on alt.uk.law. Yes, it's just one
> case I need details of, probably Edinburgh, probably 1830s or 40s. As
> I say, for the next few days I have access to world-class resources,
> but no idea how to use them!
>
> Thanks again,
>
> John

John - was she connected to the Wedderburns - or the Wedderburn
Websters. - One case around that time involved the estate of a David
Webster of the trading firm Wedderburn, Webster & Co - see his entry
on

http://www.alpesprovence.net/wedderburn/blackness/alexwed4thbart.htm

in particular

"in 1827, the children of David Wedderburn or Webster began the law-
suit .... It lasted for almost 30 years, and while it involved those
against whom it was directed in anxiety and expense, brought no
advantage to those by whom it was started"

See also page 209 in

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=218wAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA209&lpg=RA2-PA209&dq=webster%2B%22Court+of+Session%22&source=web&ots=2_9aAEOcGx&sig=gE3td46Ln6R90_oNvv7fe_DQ_QM&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PRA2-PA209,M1

where the English Chancery court refers to the Scottish Court of
Session case. They cite it as Wedderburn v Wedderburn, so it was
probably the same name in the Court of Session records.

Does that sound like the case your looking for?

Toom

On 5 Sep, 14:22, Toom Tabard  wrote:

>
> where the English Chancery court refers to the Scottish Court of
> Session case. They cite it as Wedderburn v Wedderburn, so it was
> probably the same name in the Court of Session records.
>

By the way, that looks to be a counter-suit injunction to stop the
Scottish proceedings because of pending English proceedings. Is the OP
sure that it is the Scottish material that he wants. I glanced through
the case in the Rolls Court there referenced (2 Keen 722) which looks
to be a fairly detailed decision about an action by David Webster's
children against his former partners. There are lots of notes of
related cases in England (one presumes quite a bit happened). I've no
idea what happened in the Court of Session.

Query: what do you want this for?

Francis

On 5 Sep, 16:15, Francis Davey  wrote:
> On 5 Sep, 14:22, Toom Tabard  wrote:
>
>
>
> > where the English Chancery court refers to the Scottish Court of
> > Session case. They cite it as Wedderburn v Wedderburn, so it was
> > probably the same name in the Court of Session records.
>
> By the way, that looks to be a counter-suit injunction to stop the
> Scottish proceedings because of pending English proceedings. Is the OP
> sure that it is the Scottish material that he wants. I glanced through
> the case in the Rolls Court there referenced (2 Keen 722) which looks
> to be a fairly detailed decision about an action by David Webster's
> children against his former partners. There are lots of notes of
> related cases in England (one presumes quite a bit happened). I've no
> idea what happened in the Court of Session.
>
> Query: what do you want this for?
>
> Francis

There's also a Scottish Session Court case Wedderburn -v- Wedderburn
(1853) 17 Beav. 158 to 159, which, given the duration of the
litigation, might be the same saga - it's sometimes quoted because of
its decision that the plaintiffs (pursuers) must present a common
cause, rather than all seek individual judgments in the same case. I
don't, however, have immediate access to that volume of court reports
to identify what the case was about.

Toom

On 5 Sep, 16:38, Toom Tabard  wrote:
> On 5 Sep, 16:15, Francis Davey  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 5 Sep, 14:22, Toom Tabard  wrote:
>
> > > where the English Chancery court refers to the Scottish Court of
> > > Session case. They cite it as Wedderburn v Wedderburn, so it was
> > > probably the same name in the Court of Session records.
>
> > By the way, that looks to be a counter-suit injunction to stop the
> > Scottish proceedings because of pending English proceedings. Is the OP
> > sure that it is the Scottish material that he wants. I glanced through
> > the case in the Rolls Court there referenced (2 Keen 722) which looks
> > to be a fairly detailed decision about an action by David Webster's
> > children against his former partners. There are lots of notes of
> > related cases in England (one presumes quite a bit happened). I've no
> > idea what happened in the Court of Session.
>
> > Query: what do you want this for?
>
> > Francis
>
> There's also a Scottish Session Court case Wedderburn -v- Wedderburn
> (1853) 17 Beav. 158 to 159, which, given the duration of the
> litigation, might be the same saga - it's sometimes quoted because of
> its decision that the plaintiffs (pursuers) must present a common
> cause, rather than all seek individual judgments in the same case. I
> don't, however, have immediate access to that volume of court reports
> to identify what the case was about.
>
> Toom

Sorry - Thanks to your message, I've just realised that case citation
is English - which would explain why I haven't found it in the
Scottish law directories - got a bit confused by the thing having
started in Scotland. The Scottish report editor in 1853 was Dunlop:
Beav, I assume, will be Beavan's english court reports.

So, yes, maybe John should be looking at English cases if it was
continued and resolved (or not) there.

Toom

Hi. Sorry I haven't replied sooner - I've been out of touch for a few
days. OK, I'll look into this; it sounds very promising. In any case,
I'll be back in touch to let you know what transpires.

Thanks again,

John

Francis Davey wrote:

> Query: what do you want this for?

I'm trying to find out a bit more about the biographical details of a
(now forgotten) 19th century author, called Grace Webster. I dug up a
reference to a "ruinous lawsuit" that impoverished her and wanted to
know a bit more about it.

Thanks,

John

I wrote:

> I'll be back in touch to let you know what transpires.

Nothing very specific so far, except that I'm fairly sure that this
*is* the case I'm looking for. As I said, I'm looking into the
background of a little-known author called Grace Webster, who was
impoverished as a result of this lawsuit. There's quite a lot of
information about the Wedderburns and their business concerns and the
Webster/Wedderburn case here:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/euroleader/wedderburn/blackness/alexwed4thbart.htm

That website also mentions various members of the Ogilvie family.
Clearly, they form a fairly important part of the picture. Grace
Webster's mother was nee Catherine Ogilvie so, without having delved
into the actual legal records as yet, I have pretty strong evidence
that this is, indeed, the case I am looking for.

There are one or two other hints that I'm on the right track, so I'm
now getting in gear to get into this as deeply as possible and see if
I can tie up all the loose ends.

Many thanks!

John