It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments 
for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the 
Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by 
Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this 
be right?

Bill wrote:
> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments 
> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the 
> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by 
> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this 
> be right?
> 
sometimes. I think  it depends on who issues it. I've successfully 
claimed money back from goods purchased online using Visa Debit from Co-Op.

Bill wrote:

> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
> be right?

You have no legal entitlement unless it is in your bank's T&C.  You could
ask though, they might refund it.

> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
> be right?


Some banks offer a similar guarantee with VISA Debit cards to that offered 
by UK credit cards. It depends on the individual bank that issues the card.

Peter Crosland

"Bill"  wrote in message 
news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
> be right?

The question of chargebacks on Debit Cards has just been featured on BBC2's 
Working Lunch programme. See;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7593369.stm

-- 
Joe Lee

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:42:32 +0100, "Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress>
wrote:

>
>"Bill"  wrote in message 
>news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> be right?
>
>The question of chargebacks on Debit Cards has just been featured on BBC2's 
>Working Lunch programme. See;
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7593369.stm

My offspring and a friend were booked with this company for next
month. Paid cash for the tickets.  They went down to the travel agency
this afternoon and got a full refund and booking for an alternative
holiday.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:10:18 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
 wrote:

>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> be right?
>
>
>Some banks offer a similar guarantee with VISA Debit cards to that offered 
>by UK credit cards. It depends on the individual bank that issues the card.


I think this was discussed here several months ago.

I seem to remember that you are protected with a debit card if your
use of the card to purchase the goods resulted in your account being
overdrawn. That's because the card then becomes a "Credit Token" under
the terms of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act, just as a credit card is.

Chris

Alang wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:42:32 +0100, "Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress>
> wrote:
>

> My offspring and a friend were booked with this company for next
> month. Paid cash for the tickets.  They went down to the travel agency
> this afternoon and got a full refund and booking for an alternative
> holiday.

I think their saving grace is that they booked through a travel agent rather 
than directly with XL.

-- 
Peter <X-Files fan>

"Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress> wrote in message 
news:48cab823$0$26075$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> "Bill"  wrote in message 
> news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> be right?
>
> The question of chargebacks on Debit Cards has just been featured on 
> BBC2's Working Lunch programme. See;
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7593369.stm
>
> -- 
> Joe Lee

Nobody here or on BBC/SKY ITV news has mentioned anything about travel 
insurance, im pretty sure its part of the agreement between the passenger 
and the airline that people must have travel insurance to board.

I would assume the majority of people have travel insurance so does this 
travel insurance not cover anything like this ??.

"Essex Laptops - Andy Usher"  gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying:

> im pretty sure its part of the agreement between the passenger and the 
> airline that people must have travel insurance to board.

No, it isn't.

It may seem it, but that's only because travel agents get a huge markup 
on selling massively overpriced ad-hoc insurance for more than you can 
buy a better annual policy for.

> I would assume the majority of people have travel insurance so does this
> travel insurance not cover anything like this ??.

No, of course not. They're not insuring the airline/holiday company - 
they're insuring YOU. They'll pay if YOU have to cancel or cut short the 
holiday. But not if the airline/holiday company goes titsup.com

Chris Blunt wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:10:18 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
>  wrote:
> 
>>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>>> be right?
>>
>> Some banks offer a similar guarantee with VISA Debit cards to that offered 
>> by UK credit cards. It depends on the individual bank that issues the card.
> 
> 
> I think this was discussed here several months ago.
> 
> I seem to remember that you are protected with a debit card if your
> use of the card to purchase the goods resulted in your account being
> overdrawn. That's because the card then becomes a "Credit Token" under
> the terms of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act, just as a credit card is.
> 
> Chris

The time I claimed back on a debit card the purchase didn't make me 
overdrawn.

"Adrian"  wrote in message 
news:6j1b4tF102gnU7@mid.individual.net...
> "Essex Laptops - Andy Usher"  gurgled happily,
> sounding much like they were saying:
>
>> im pretty sure its part of the agreement between the passenger and the
>> airline that people must have travel insurance to board.
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> It may seem it, but that's only because travel agents get a huge markup
> on selling massively overpriced ad-hoc insurance for more than you can
> buy a better annual policy for.

Ok, This is fine, I rarely travel with insurance but was told it was 
law/compulsory by checkin staff

>> I would assume the majority of people have travel insurance so does this
>> travel insurance not cover anything like this ??.
>
> No, of course not. They're not insuring the airline/holiday company -
> they're insuring YOU. They'll pay if YOU have to cancel or cut short the
> holiday. But not if the airline/holiday company goes titsup.com

Ok Thanks,

Essex Laptops - Andy Usher wrote:

> Nobody here or on BBC/SKY ITV news has mentioned anything about travel
> insurance, im pretty sure its part of the agreement between the passenger
> and the airline that people must have travel insurance to board.
> 
> I would assume the majority of people have travel insurance so does this
> travel insurance not cover anything like this ??.

Most policies exclude it.  Swift Cover lets you cover it for an extra
charge, and M&S provide cover.  Most others don't.

Essex Laptops - Andy Usher wrote:
> "Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress> wrote in message 
> news:48cab823$0$26075$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> "Bill"  wrote in message 
>> news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
>>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>>> be right?
>> The question of chargebacks on Debit Cards has just been featured on 
>> BBC2's Working Lunch programme. See;
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7593369.stm
>>
>> -- 
>> Joe Lee
> 
> Nobody here or on BBC/SKY ITV news has mentioned anything about travel 
> insurance, im pretty sure its part of the agreement between the passenger 
> and the airline that people must have travel insurance to board.
> 
> I would assume the majority of people have travel insurance so does this 
> travel insurance not cover anything like this ??. 

Travel insurance may not be much help.  There was an article in last 
Saturday's (?) Times in relation to Zoom going bust noting that travel 
insurance might not cover costs to e.g. get you home when Zoom went bust 
as many travel policies don't include Scheduled Airline Failure 
Insurance any more (the Post Office insurance is one exception.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/article4636644.ece

Glad someone else mentioned chargeback for (Visa) debit cards elsewhere 
on this thread.

"Bill"  wrote in message
news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
> be right?

I think there is a separate VISA scheme, ask your bank.

You are definitely covered if you paid by debit card while overdrawn (or, if the
payment took you overdrawn, for the amount by which you went overdrawn). Then
you have exactly the same rights as if you paid by credit card.

--
Andy

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:01:12 +0100, "Trust No One®"
 wrote:

>Alang wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:42:32 +0100, "Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress>
>> wrote:
>>
>
>> My offspring and a friend were booked with this company for next
>> month. Paid cash for the tickets.  They went down to the travel agency
>> this afternoon and got a full refund and booking for an alternative
>> holiday.
>
>I think their saving grace is that they booked through a travel agent rather 
>than directly with XL.

Possibly protected by ABTA. They didn't enquire too closely. Just
relieved they aren't losing a holiday

Purchases made using a Visa Debit card are covered by insurance in EXACTLY 
the same way as for credit cards. This is not commonly known even by the 
card issuers who when asked will say that you are not covered. If you 
persist and point out to them the Visa terms they will concede that they 
were wrong, apologise and deal with your claim.


"Bill"  wrote in message 
news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
| It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
| for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
| Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
| Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
| be right?
|

"Stickems." <Stickems.@last.invalid> wrote in message 
news:m0Tyk.15310$eJ.12153@newsfe17.ams2...
> Purchases made using a Visa Debit card are covered by insurance in EXACTLY
> the same way as for credit cards. This is not commonly known even by the
> card issuers who when asked will say that you are not covered. If you
> persist and point out to them the Visa terms they will concede that they
> were wrong, apologise and deal with your claim.
>
>
> "Bill"  wrote in message
> news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
> | It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
> | for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
> | Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
> | Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
> | be right?
> |
>
Sorry but this is incorrect.
Debit card chargebacks in this instance will only be covered if in the terms 
and conditions of issue of your debit cards by individual banks.
There is no national 'Visa' rules because Visa is just a commercial company 
and cannot override any UK or EU legislation such as our Consumer Credit 
Act.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:38:42 +0100, harikeo  wrote:

>Chris Blunt wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:10:18 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>>>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>>>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>>>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>>>> be right?
>>>
>>> Some banks offer a similar guarantee with VISA Debit cards to that offered 
>>> by UK credit cards. It depends on the individual bank that issues the card.
>> 
>> 
>> I think this was discussed here several months ago.
>> 
>> I seem to remember that you are protected with a debit card if your
>> use of the card to purchase the goods resulted in your account being
>> overdrawn. That's because the card then becomes a "Credit Token" under
>> the terms of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act, just as a credit card is.
>> 
>> Chris
>
>The time I claimed back on a debit card the purchase didn't make me 
>overdrawn.

In that case any refund would have been a result of your bank's own
internal policies, and not a statutory entitlement.

Chris

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:46:58 +0100, "Stickems."
<Stickems.@last.invalid> wrote:

>Purchases made using a Visa Debit card are covered by insurance in EXACTLY 
>the same way as for credit cards. This is not commonly known even by the 
>card issuers who when asked will say that you are not covered. If you 
>persist and point out to them the Visa terms they will concede that they 
>were wrong, apologise and deal with your claim.

It has nothing to do with insurance. It's to do with the legal
responsibility banks have for items purchased with a credit card. That
obligation does not exist with debit cards, unless the account is
overdrawn.

Chris

"Jonathan Bryce" <jonathan@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message 
news:3pudnfklq64AMVfVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> be right?
>
> You have no legal entitlement unless it is in your bank's T&C.  You could
> ask though, they might refund it.

But it is in the Visa T&Cs, that's why the customer is entitled to the money 
back

tim

"Peter Crosland"  wrote in message 
news:45KdnVSkNOkXLVfVnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> be right?
>
>
> Some banks offer a similar guarantee with VISA Debit cards to that offered 
> by UK credit cards. It depends on the individual bank that issues the 
> card.

No, it comes with the "Visa" symbol, the issuing bank is irrelevant

tim

"Eric Jones"  wrote in message 
news:Cpednf8IHoZ5glHVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Stickems." <Stickems.@last.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:m0Tyk.15310$eJ.12153@newsfe17.ams2...
>> Purchases made using a Visa Debit card are covered by insurance in 
>> EXACTLY
>> the same way as for credit cards. This is not commonly known even by the
>> card issuers who when asked will say that you are not covered. If you
>> persist and point out to them the Visa terms they will concede that they
>> were wrong, apologise and deal with your claim.
>>
>>
>> "Bill"  wrote in message
>> news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
>> | It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> | for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> | Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> | Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> | be right?
>> |
>>
> Sorry but this is incorrect.
> Debit card chargebacks in this instance will only be covered if in the 
> terms and conditions of issue of your debit cards by individual banks.
> There is no national 'Visa' rules because Visa is just a commercial 
> company and cannot override any UK or EU legislation such as our Consumer 
> Credit Act.

These two statements are not connected.

Just because there are UK/EU consumer credit laws does not mean that there 
cannot be a common set of Visa rules, because in fact, there is (a common 
set of Visa rules).  And they do require the Bank to provide a chargeback in 
these circumstances

tim

On Sep 13, 10:08 am, "Essex Laptops - Andy Usher"
 wrote:
> > It may seem it, but that's only because travel agents get a huge markup
> > on selling massively overpriced ad-hoc insurance for more than you can
> > buy a better annual policy for.
>
> Ok, This is fine, I rarely travel with insurance but was told it was
> law/compulsory by checkin staff
>

It is (or was) to visit some countries. But that's not a condition of
the airline, it's a condition of the country you want to visit. It
used to be the case for Russia but I'm pretty sure it isn't now (for
UK citizens) although they still ask about your travel insurance on
the visa application form.

Tim.

"Jonathan Bryce" <jonathan@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message 
news:3pudnfklq64AMVfVnZ2dnUVZ8vOdnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
> Bill wrote:
>
>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> be right?
>
> You have no legal entitlement unless it is in your bank's T&C.  You could
> ask though, they might refund it.

Many Visa issuers do include something of the sort in their Terms and 
Conditions.  It should be remembered that a debit card automatically 
includes CCA protection if the transaction results in the supporting account 
becoming overdrawn (even if only by 1 penny).

"Chris Blunt"  wrote in message 
news:is9mc45t4itehufuh90qmqdopj11edt0a5@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:10:18 +0100, "Peter Crosland"
>  wrote:
>
>>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>>> be right?
>>
>>
>>Some banks offer a similar guarantee with VISA Debit cards to that offered
>>by UK credit cards. It depends on the individual bank that issues the 
>>card.
>
>
> I think this was discussed here several months ago.
>
> I seem to remember that you are protected with a debit card if your
> use of the card to purchase the goods resulted in your account being
> overdrawn. That's because the card then becomes a "Credit Token" under
> the terms of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act, just as a credit card is.
>
>

Though correct, the cover being discussed is actually a specific cover that 
is offered by many card issuers who issue Visa Debit cards.

"Alang"  wrote in message 
news:25ilc4p0tqds7o5c26qbqvb70rm60re50f@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:42:32 +0100, "Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bill"  wrote in message
>>news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
>>> It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>>> for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>>> Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>>> Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>>> be right?
>>
>>The question of chargebacks on Debit Cards has just been featured on 
>>BBC2's
>>Working Lunch programme. See;
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7593369.stm
>
> My offspring and a friend were booked with this company for next
> month. Paid cash for the tickets.  They went down to the travel agency
> this afternoon and got a full refund and booking for an alternative
> holiday.

The clue there is 'travel agency'.  Most travel agents are covered by the 
ATOL scheme.  The really reputable ones will allow you to offset the pending 
refund against a further booking.

"Essex Laptops - Andy Usher"  wrote in message 
news:gafvs0$8gr$1@energise.enta.net...
>
> "Adrian"  wrote in message 
> news:6j1b4tF102gnU7@mid.individual.net...
>> "Essex Laptops - Andy Usher"  gurgled happily,
>> sounding much like they were saying:
>>
>>> im pretty sure its part of the agreement between the passenger and the
>>> airline that people must have travel insurance to board.
>>
>> No, it isn't.
>>
>> It may seem it, but that's only because travel agents get a huge markup
>> on selling massively overpriced ad-hoc insurance for more than you can
>> buy a better annual policy for.
>
> Ok, This is fine, I rarely travel with insurance but was told it was 
> law/compulsory by checkin staff
>

Some countries make it a condition of applying for a visa (e.g. Russia), but 
it is not otherwise compulsory.  Whether it is wise to travel without 
insurance is another matter.

"Stickems." <Stickems.@last.invalid> wrote in message 
news:m0Tyk.15310$eJ.12153@newsfe17.ams2...
> Purchases made using a Visa Debit card are covered by insurance in EXACTLY
> the same way as for credit cards. This is not commonly known even by the
> card issuers who when asked will say that you are not covered. If you
> persist and point out to them the Visa terms they will concede that they
> were wrong, apologise and deal with your claim.
>

Not entirely accurate.  The credit card cover is statutory and only covers 
transaction between £100 and £30,000.  The Visa Debit card scheme is a 
protection offered by the card issuer.  Visa Europe insist that every card 
issuer should offer the protection, for which there are no financial limits, 
but if the T&Cs for your specific card don't cover the matter there is 
little that you can do other than moan to Visa Europe.

"Eric Jones"  wrote in message 
news:Cpednf8IHoZ5glHVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Stickems." <Stickems.@last.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:m0Tyk.15310$eJ.12153@newsfe17.ams2...
>> Purchases made using a Visa Debit card are covered by insurance in 
>> EXACTLY
>> the same way as for credit cards. This is not commonly known even by the
>> card issuers who when asked will say that you are not covered. If you
>> persist and point out to them the Visa terms they will concede that they
>> were wrong, apologise and deal with your claim.
>>
>>
>> "Bill"  wrote in message
>> news:20080912-173200.923.0@Bill.news.plus.net...
>> | It's widely known that in situations like the collapse of XL, payments
>> | for goods and services are recoverable if made by credit card. On the
>> | Today programme this morning though it was said that payments made by
>> | Visa debit cards were also recoverable from the card issuer.  Can this
>> | be right?
>> |
>>
> Sorry but this is incorrect.
> Debit card chargebacks in this instance will only be covered if in the 
> terms and conditions of issue of your debit cards by individual banks.
> There is no national 'Visa' rules because Visa is just a commercial 
> company and cannot override any UK or EU legislation such as our Consumer 
> Credit Act.

Correct.  They are *international* rules.  At least throughout the Europe, 
Visa Europe require all Visa debit card issuers to offer the protection.