I knew the gas companies got up to some dodgy tricks - a while ago my
gas bill was so far out (over estimated) that I gave them a corrected
reading. For some reason (possibly my fault), initially the reading they
got was even worse (extra 1000GBP to pay). When I got this bill, all the
extra gas had been charged at the most recent (highest) rate. When I
then gave them the correct reading and the recalculated again, they went
back and redid all the estimates across the year - so that I had more
usage in the higher rates than I would have done if they'd just adjusted
my final bill (to be negative). I accept the recalculating was fair
(infact they had to recalculate at least one previous bill otherwise my
usage would have been negative for a quarter), but it should also have
been done for the bill where it appeared I'd been underestimated.

I notice that the BBC has something about people having huge debts
because of underestimated bills - I wonder how prevalent this effect is.
With prices rising, it makes sense to underestimate your customers usage
and then bill them at the highest rate.

But I've just found an even more egarious fraud. Because of the above,
I've started always giving a correct reading every time I get an
estimated bill.

I got an estimated bill with an estimated reading of 5596 dated 11th
Jan. I sent in the correct reading of 5687 (which I will have read on
the day I got the bill) and got a new bill dated 16th Jan (So I must
have read it some time between 11th and 16th Jan). I've just been
updating my spreadsheet of gas usage, and I noticed that my (final) bill
of 5th May has two prices. The gas price changed on 18th Jan[1], but
rather than work from my (pre) 16th Jan actual reading, they've gone
back to the 11th Jan estimate and then estimated the 18th Jan value as
5629 which is clearly too low. This makes a difference of 1.55 (plus
VAT) or about and extra 3% on my bill.

(I'm no longer with EDF - we'll see how things go with a different
supplier)

I'd started always checking the readings of my bill and giving corrected
readings, but I'd never thought to check that they were using the
correct value from the previous bill. I've got another bill where the
original bill was for the period 18th July to 11th Oct, but the
corrected bill is for 28th Jun to 15th Oct. I have, so far, been unable
to work out whether they've charged me double for the period 28th June
to 18th July due to the bizarre way they calculate their bills (I think
they are correct and haven't double charged me but it depends on some
complex calculations on partial bits of the 13th April to 18th July bill
to be sure)

So, it isn't sufficient to check that the meter reading on your bill
matches the meter, you also need to go back to previous bills and make
sure there's been no shenanigans there either :-( And the calculations
aren't easy when your bill periods overlap and they "refund" part of the
previous bill before recalculating your current bill from an
intermediate date in a previous bill.

Tim.

[1] If I'd understood how this switching malarky worked I'd not have had
to pay the higher price at all but I didn't understand all the hoops I
had to jump though to get my price fixed while the switch was taking
place - I actually started the switching process as soon as the price
increase was announced in the news, and before it actually took place.

-- 
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," 
and there was light.

  http://www.woodall.me.uk/    http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

In message , Tim 
Woodall  writes
>
>I got an estimated bill with an estimated reading of 5596 dated 11th
>Jan. I sent in the correct reading of 5687 (which I will have read on
>the day I got the bill) and got a new bill dated 16th Jan (So I must
>have read it some time between 11th and 16th Jan). I've just been
>updating my spreadsheet of gas usage, and I noticed that my (final) bill
>of 5th May has two prices. The gas price changed on 18th Jan[1], but
>rather than work from my (pre) 16th Jan actual reading, they've gone
>back to the 11th Jan estimate and then estimated the 18th Jan value as
>5629 which is clearly too low. This makes a difference of 1.55 (plus
>VAT) or about and extra 3% on my bill.
>
>(I'm no longer with EDF - we'll see how things go with a different
>supplier)
>
>I'd started always checking the readings of my bill and giving corrected
>readings, but I'd never thought to check that they were using the
>correct value from the previous bill. I've got another bill where the
>original bill was for the period 18th July to 11th Oct, but the
>corrected bill is for 28th Jun to 15th Oct. I have, so far, been unable
>to work out whether they've charged me double for the period 28th June
>to 18th July due to the bizarre way they calculate their bills (I think
>they are correct and haven't double charged me but it depends on some
>complex calculations on partial bits of the 13th April to 18th July bill
>to be sure)
>
A long and complicated post, but I always spreadsheet my bills, read the 
meter fairly frequently, and forecast what the bill will be after 90 
days.
I do this for my lady friend also.

The most blatant error was on her bill, when they read it, assumed it to 
be an Imperial meter, and multiplied by approximately 3!
It took 5 months to sort that out with (Powergen), but they gave her 3 
months free gas in the end because they had got in such a mess with her 
calculations and had to give her a fresh start!      8-(

I have noticed some of the points you made, but one of the main problems 
in a forecast/check spreadsheet is that the threshold for the cheaper 
secondary unit charges to start is changed with almost every bill, 
making the forecast and checking task almost impossible.

I think that they deliberately play with the formula in order to make it 
difficult to check the bill.      :-(

I suppose everyone noticed that BT have abandoned the free evening calls 
for BTTogether 1 customers, and increased the rate per minute during the 
day?

I have opted for their Free Anytime scheme, because it will be cheaper 
for me, but I fear that they will sneak the rental payments up, once 
sufficient customers are snared...
-- 
Gordon H

"Tim Woodall"  wrote in message 
news:slrng7h55r.jmh.devnull@dirac.home.woodall.me.uk...
>I knew the gas companies got up to some dodgy tricks - a while ago my
> gas bill was so far out (over estimated) that I gave them a corrected
> reading. For some reason (possibly my fault), initially the reading they
> got was even worse (extra 1000GBP to pay). When I got this bill, all the
> extra gas had been charged at the most recent (highest) rate. When I
> then gave them the correct reading and the recalculated again, they went
> back and redid all the estimates across the year - so that I had more
> usage in the higher rates than I would have done if they'd just adjusted
> my final bill (to be negative). I accept the recalculating was fair
> (infact they had to recalculate at least one previous bill otherwise my
> usage would have been negative for a quarter), but it should also have
> been done for the bill where it appeared I'd been underestimated.
>
> I notice that the BBC has something about people having huge debts
> because of underestimated bills - I wonder how prevalent this effect is.
> With prices rising, it makes sense to underestimate your customers usage
> and then bill them at the highest rate.
>
> But I've just found an even more egarious fraud. Because of the above,
> I've started always giving a correct reading every time I get an
> estimated bill.
>
> I got an estimated bill with an estimated reading of 5596 dated 11th
> Jan. I sent in the correct reading of 5687 (which I will have read on
> the day I got the bill) and got a new bill dated 16th Jan (So I must
> have read it some time between 11th and 16th Jan). I've just been
> updating my spreadsheet of gas usage, and I noticed that my (final) bill
> of 5th May has two prices. The gas price changed on 18th Jan[1], but
> rather than work from my (pre) 16th Jan actual reading, they've gone
> back to the 11th Jan estimate and then estimated the 18th Jan value as
> 5629 which is clearly too low. This makes a difference of 1.55 (plus
> VAT) or about and extra 3% on my bill.
>
> (I'm no longer with EDF - we'll see how things go with a different
> supplier)
>
> I'd started always checking the readings of my bill and giving corrected
> readings, but I'd never thought to check that they were using the
> correct value from the previous bill. I've got another bill where the
> original bill was for the period 18th July to 11th Oct, but the
> corrected bill is for 28th Jun to 15th Oct. I have, so far, been unable
> to work out whether they've charged me double for the period 28th June
> to 18th July due to the bizarre way they calculate their bills (I think
> they are correct and haven't double charged me but it depends on some
> complex calculations on partial bits of the 13th April to 18th July bill
> to be sure)
>
> So, it isn't sufficient to check that the meter reading on your bill
> matches the meter, you also need to go back to previous bills and make
> sure there's been no shenanigans there either :-( And the calculations
> aren't easy when your bill periods overlap and they "refund" part of the
> previous bill before recalculating your current bill from an
> intermediate date in a previous bill.
>
> Tim.
>
> [1] If I'd understood how this switching malarky worked I'd not have had
> to pay the higher price at all but I didn't understand all the hoops I
> had to jump though to get my price fixed while the switch was taking
> place - I actually started the switching process as soon as the price
> increase was announced in the news, and before it actually took place.
>
> -- 
> God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
> and there was light.
>
>  http://www.woodall.me.uk/    http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

They get up to all kinds of tricks.... direct debit being the first ... its 
for their benefit not yours..their cash flow...and now they read the meter 
once a year the errors there can be enormous, coupled with the fact that if 
you underpay you are tied to them as supplier until your back in credit.
Then as you say, its the distribution of high charge/low charging ratio... 
thank God they don't do multiple charges like some banks (standard life) 
life do for savings rates (4 or 5 different rates on the same account). A 
lot of this is done so that you cant compare rates easily between suppliers.
Re the meter reading I always contact them, but I notice if you ring them 
its not on a local call or freecall charge rate, and if you give the reading 
over the internet they don't send out a revised bill... they expect you to 
pay via the internet.

On 12 Jul, 15:59, Gordon H  wrote:
> In message , Tim
> Woodall  writes
>
>
>
>
>
> >I got an estimated bill with an estimated reading of 5596 dated 11th
> >Jan. I sent in the correct reading of 5687 (which I will have read on
> >the day I got the bill) and got a new bill dated 16th Jan (So I must
> >have read it some time between 11th and 16th Jan). I've just been
> >updating my spreadsheet of gas usage, and I noticed that my (final) bill
> >of 5th May has two prices. The gas price changed on 18th Jan[1], but
> >rather than work from my (pre) 16th Jan actual reading, they've gone
> >back to the 11th Jan estimate and then estimated the 18th Jan value as
> >5629 which is clearly too low. This makes a difference of 1.55 (plus
> >VAT) or about and extra 3% on my bill.
>
> >(I'm no longer with EDF - we'll see how things go with a different
> >supplier)
>
> >I'd started always checking the readings of my bill and giving corrected
> >readings, but I'd never thought to check that they were using the
> >correct value from the previous bill. I've got another bill where the
> >original bill was for the period 18th July to 11th Oct, but the
> >corrected bill is for 28th Jun to 15th Oct. I have, so far, been unable
> >to work out whether they've charged me double for the period 28th June
> >to 18th July due to the bizarre way they calculate their bills (I think
> >they are correct and haven't double charged me but it depends on some
> >complex calculations on partial bits of the 13th April to 18th July bill
> >to be sure)
>
> A long and complicated post, but I always spreadsheet my bills, read the
> meter fairly frequently, and forecast what the bill will be after 90
> days.
> I do this for my lady friend also.
>
> The most blatant error was on her bill, when they read it, assumed it to
> be an Imperial meter, and multiplied by approximately 3!
> It took 5 months to sort that out with (Powergen), but they gave her 3
> months free gas in the end because they had got in such a mess with her
> calculations and had to give her a fresh start!      8-(
>
> I have noticed some of the points you made, but one of the main problems
> in a forecast/check spreadsheet is that the threshold for the cheaper
> secondary unit charges to start is changed with almost every bill,
> making the forecast and checking task almost impossible.
>
> I think that they deliberately play with the formula in order to make it
> difficult to check the bill.      :-(
>
> I suppose everyone noticed that BT have abandoned the free evening calls
> for BTTogether 1 customers, and increased the rate per minute during the
> day?
>
> I have opted for their Free Anytime scheme, because it will be cheaper
> for me, but I fear that they will sneak the rental payments up, once
> sufficient customers are snared...
> --
> Gordon H- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If you have not already you can try Ebico as they charge one rate each
for gas and electricity whatever you use making it easier to estimate
usage. Their rate is between the higher and lower rates of other
suppliers - however they are not cheaper for everyone as they benefit
lower users more.

In message 
, 
"x.x@ntlworld.com"  writes
>
>If you have not already you can try Ebico as they charge one rate each
>for gas and electricity whatever you use making it easier to estimate
>usage. Their rate is between the higher and lower rates of other
>suppliers - however they are not cheaper for everyone as they benefit
>lower users more.

I am still with originals, Brit Gas for gas and E-on, originally NWEB!
Sunday Times today suggests that British Gas are cheapest capped rate 
dual fuel, but they mention an average annual fuel cost of approximately 
£850.      My annual bill is less than that, so I may look at Ebico, 
though Scottish Power seem to have been consistently cheap.
Certainly I'm a lower consumption user.
-- 
Gordon H

"Gordon H"  wrote in message 
news:7G5WTODzakeIFwsS@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> In message 
> , 
> "x.x@ntlworld.com"  writes
>>
>>If you have not already you can try Ebico as they charge one rate each
>>for gas and electricity whatever you use making it easier to estimate
>>usage. Their rate is between the higher and lower rates of other
>>suppliers - however they are not cheaper for everyone as they benefit
>>lower users more.
>
> I am still with originals, Brit Gas for gas and E-on, originally NWEB!
> Sunday Times today suggests that British Gas are cheapest capped rate dual 
> fuel, but they mention an average annual fuel cost of approximately £850. 
> My annual bill is less than that, so I may look at Ebico, though Scottish 
> Power seem to have been consistently cheap.
> Certainly I'm a lower consumption user.

I would strongly recommend that you do not stick with your original 
supplier. Even if they are quoted as 'best buy' it is unlikely that you as a 
'historic user' will be getting the best buy rate. Go to one of the 
comparison web sites, and compare their best offering with what you are 
getting, and remember that the prices are changing all the time, and the 
best buy today may not be the best buy tomorrow. It takes some effort on 
your part, because you need to work out the current rates/kW costs etc.

I would suggest that you check annually.

I have recently changed from British Gas to Scottish power - capped until 
2011. It was actually more expensive than the current BG price, but the 
futures markets say that the normal prices will go up this summer or autumn.

John

In message , Gordon H
 wrote
>In message <d0873c18-ece5-4594-81ec-1b32e413cdd4@a1g20
>00hsb.googlegroups.com>, "x.x@ntlworld.com"
> writes
>>
>>If you have not already you can try Ebico as they charge one rate each
>>for gas and electricity whatever you use making it easier to estimate
>>usage. Their rate is between the higher and lower rates of other
>>suppliers - however they are not cheaper for everyone as they benefit
>>lower users more.
>
>I am still with originals, Brit Gas for gas and E-on, originally NWEB!
>Sunday Times today suggests that British Gas are cheapest
>capped rate dual fuel, but they mention an average annual fuel
>cost of approximately £850.      My annual bill is less than that,
>so I may look at Ebico, though Scottish Power seem to have
>been consistently cheap.
>Certainly I'm a lower consumption user.

What is the AVERAGE fuel bill with Ebico?  If you are not the 'average'
user the figure quoted is meaningless for you.

For me dual fuel with British Gas was one of the better options. Many
companies were within around £10/20 per year of each other when I
entered my exact gas and electricity consumption for the previous 12
months.


 --
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

In message <U4Kek.190182$jB5.112804@newsfe05.ams2>, John E 
<JCE@myhouse.invalid> writes
>"Gordon H"  wrote
>>
>> I am still with originals, Brit Gas for gas and E-on, originally NWEB!
>> Sunday Times today suggests that British Gas are cheapest capped rate 
>>dual  fuel, but they mention an average annual fuel cost of 
>>approximately £850.
>
>I would strongly recommend that you do not stick with your original 
>supplier. Even if they are quoted as 'best buy' it is unlikely that you 
>as a 'historic user' will be getting the best buy rate. Go to one of 
>the comparison web sites, and compare their best offering with what you 
>are getting, and remember that the prices are changing all the time, 
>and the best buy today may not be the best buy tomorrow. It takes some 
>effort on your part, because you need to work out the current rates/kW 
>costs etc.
>I would suggest that you check annually.
>
>I have recently changed from British Gas to Scottish power - capped 
>until 2011. It was actually more expensive than the current BG price, 
>but the futures markets say that the normal prices will go up this 
>summer or autumn.
>John

The problem is, John, (and Alan) that over a number of years just after 
I retired, I was chasing interest rates around different building 
societies, and found that in the end it was like chasing my own tail. 
:-(

I get the same feeling with power companies.      I watch all the TV 
programmes and listen avidly to R4 Moneybox, and it seems to me that the 
only consistent advice is that if you haven't ever moved, you should do 
so, and (currently) for a capped rate.

Well, I moved some money into a fixed rate fixed term ISA bond a couple 
of months ago, seemed like a good idea, but with the latest news on 
inflation, it doesn't look as though interest rates will be crashing any 
time soon.

I certainly intend to get cavity insulation whilst it is free to over 
70s!
-- 
Gordon H

"Gordon H"  wrote in message 
news:+duJ8tbOqPfIFwVp@g3snx.demon.co.uk...

> The problem is, John, (and Alan) that over a number of years just after I 
> retired, I was chasing interest rates around different building societies, 
> and found that in the end it was like chasing my own tail. :-(
>
> I get the same feeling with power companies.      I watch all the TV 
> programmes and listen avidly to R4 Moneybox, and it seems to me that the 
> only consistent advice is that if you haven't ever moved, you should do 
> so, and (currently) for a capped rate.
>
> Well, I moved some money into a fixed rate fixed term ISA bond a couple of 
> months ago, seemed like a good idea, but with the latest news on 
> inflation, it doesn't look as though interest rates will be crashing any 
> time soon.
>
> I certainly intend to get cavity insulation whilst it is free to over 70s!

Chasing rates is a pain, I agree. However, it depends how important it is to 
you. My rule is that it isn't worth changing for less than 0.5%. More than 
that, I'll definitely think about it!

With regard to cavity insulation, that is a definite yes - assuming you 
already have loft insulation, and have done the draughts - you will see a 
saving.

John

"Gordon H"  wrote in message 
news:+duJ8tbOqPfIFwVp@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> In message <U4Kek.190182$jB5.112804@newsfe05.ams2>, John E 
> <JCE@myhouse.invalid> writes
>>"Gordon H"  wrote
>>>
>>> I am still with originals, Brit Gas for gas and E-on, originally NWEB!
>>> Sunday Times today suggests that British Gas are cheapest capped rate 
>>> dual  fuel, but they mention an average annual fuel cost of 
>>> approximately £850.
>>
>>I would strongly recommend that you do not stick with your original 
>>supplier. Even if they are quoted as 'best buy' it is unlikely that you as 
>>a 'historic user' will be getting the best buy rate. Go to one of the 
>>comparison web sites, and compare their best offering with what you are 
>>getting, and remember that the prices are changing all the time, and the 
>>best buy today may not be the best buy tomorrow. It takes some effort on 
>>your part, because you need to work out the current rates/kW costs etc.
>>I would suggest that you check annually.
>>
>>I have recently changed from British Gas to Scottish power - capped until 
>>2011. It was actually more expensive than the current BG price, but the 
>>futures markets say that the normal prices will go up this summer or 
>>autumn.
>>John
>
> The problem is, John, (and Alan) that over a number of years just after I 
> retired, I was chasing interest rates around different building societies, 
> and found that in the end it was like chasing my own tail. :-(
>
> I get the same feeling with power companies.      I watch all the TV 
> programmes and listen avidly to R4 Moneybox, and it seems to me that the 
> only consistent advice is that if you haven't ever moved, you should do 
> so, and (currently) for a capped rate.

Find out what you pay per uiit for electricity and gas, abd then find out 
what the best deal for you according to any of the switcher sites is. 
Should only take 5 minutes and give you an idea of the saving.  If you`re 
paying 15p per unit and you can get it for 10p, then it`s worth the effort. 
if you`d be saving 0.001p per unit then not so likely it`s worth the effort 
:-)

John E wrote:

> Chasing rates is a pain, I agree. However, it depends how important it 
> is to you. My rule is that it isn't worth changing for less than 0.5%. 
> More than that, I'll definitely think about it!
> 
>
> John

It depends on how long your money is going to be "missing".

Bank B has an interest rate which is 0.5% better than your Bank A.

You transfer your money out of Bank A on Tuesday.
It arrives in Bank B on Thursday.

You have lost two days interest ie approximately 0.6%.

So it will take you over a year to recoup the 'gain'.

And that depends on all going well and that you do not pay tax on it.

Life is a loser.

Flop

Flop wrote:
> John E wrote:
> 
>> Chasing rates is a pain, I agree. However, it depends how important
>> it is to you. My rule is that it isn't worth changing for less than
>> 0.5%. More than that, I'll definitely think about it!
>> 
>> 
>> John
> 
> It depends on how long your money is going to be "missing".
> 
> Bank B has an interest rate which is 0.5% better than your Bank A.
> 
> You transfer your money out of Bank A on Tuesday.
> It arrives in Bank B on Thursday.
> 
> You have lost two days interest ie approximately 0.6%.

How do you work that out then?

In message <g5jb22$4tj$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Simon Finnigan 
 wrote
>
>Find out what you pay per uiit for electricity and gas, abd then find 
>out what the best deal for you according to any of the switcher sites 
>is. Should only take 5 minutes and give you an idea of the saving.  If 
>you`re paying 15p per unit and you can get it for 10p, then it`s worth 
>the effort. if you`d be saving 0.001p per unit then not so likely it`s 
>worth the effort :-)

But they don't price it as a single figure. It'll be so much for the 
first XkW then so much for the next YkW etc. and no two suppliers will 
have the same break points. Some suppliers will have separate standing 
charge and some build the costs into the price of a unit.

To be able to see which is cheaper you need to know your fuel 
consumption for the year.

-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

"Flop"  wrote in message 
news:m-6dnZQ_gpFptePVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> John E wrote:
>
>> Chasing rates is a pain, I agree. However, it depends how important it is 
>> to you. My rule is that it isn't worth changing for less than 0.5%. More 
>> than that, I'll definitely think about it!
>>
>> John
>
> It depends on how long your money is going to be "missing".
>
> Bank B has an interest rate which is 0.5% better than your Bank A.
>
> You transfer your money out of Bank A on Tuesday.
> It arrives in Bank B on Thursday.
>
> You have lost two days interest ie approximately 0.6%.
>
> So it will take you over a year to recoup the 'gain'.
>
> And that depends on all going well and that you do not pay tax on it.
>
> Life is a loser.
>
> Flop
>
Indeed. I once set up a spreadsheet to work out how much I would lose! Of 
course, transferring to a popular ISA, where your money disappears for 
several weeks, is a 'whole other ballgame!'

John

Norman Wells wrote:
> Flop wrote:
>> John E wrote:
>>
>>> Chasing rates is a pain, I agree. However, it depends how important
>>> it is to you. My rule is that it isn't worth changing for less than
>>> 0.5%. More than that, I'll definitely think about it!
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>
>> It depends on how long your money is going to be "missing".
>>
>> Bank B has an interest rate which is 0.5% better than your Bank A.
>>
>> You transfer your money out of Bank A on Tuesday.
>> It arrives in Bank B on Thursday.
>>
>> You have lost two days interest ie approximately 0.6%.
> 
> How do you work that out then?
> 

Ouch!!

I realised after that it was 0.6% of the interest.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Flop

In message <g5jb22$4tj$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Simon Finnigan 
 writes
>"Gordon H"  wrote
>>
>> The problem is, John, (and Alan) that over a number of years just 
>>after I  retired, I was chasing interest rates around different 
>>building societies,  and found that in the end it was like chasing my 
>>own tail. :-(
>>
>> I get the same feeling with power companies.      I watch all the TV 
>>programmes and listen avidly to R4 Moneybox, and it seems to me that 
>>the  only consistent advice is that if you haven't ever moved, you 
>>should do  so, and (currently) for a capped rate.
>
>Find out what you pay per uiit for electricity and gas, abd then find 
>out what the best deal for you according to any of the switcher sites 
>is. Should only take 5 minutes and give you an idea of the saving.  If 
>you`re paying 15p per unit and you can get it for 10p, then it`s worth 
>the effort. if you`d be saving 0.001p per unit then not so likely it`s 
>worth the effort :-)

...And the other problem is that I'm the world's worst prevaricator!
-- 
Gordon H

In message , Alan 
 writes
>In message <g5jb22$4tj$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Simon Finnigan 
> wrote
>>
>>Find out what you pay per uiit for electricity and gas, abd then find 
>>out what the best deal for you according to any of the switcher sites 
>>is. Should only take 5 minutes and give you an idea of the saving.  If 
>>you`re paying 15p per unit and you can get it for 10p, then it`s worth 
>>the effort. if you`d be saving 0.001p per unit then not so likely it`s 
>>worth the effort :-)
>
>But they don't price it as a single figure. It'll be so much for the 
>first XkW then so much for the next YkW etc. and no two suppliers will 
>have the same break points. Some suppliers will have separate standing 
>charge and some build the costs into the price of a unit.
>
>To be able to see which is cheaper you need to know your fuel 
>consumption for the year.
>
That's true, and I've started checking over the last few years as to the 
Kwh used rather than just the bills.      I'd rather be doing something 
else...
-- 
Gordon H

"Alan"  wrote in message 
news:kmbq12B7hjfIFw0S@amac.f2s.com...
> In message <g5jb22$4tj$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Simon Finnigan 
>  wrote
>>
>>Find out what you pay per uiit for electricity and gas, abd then find out 
>>what the best deal for you according to any of the switcher sites is. 
>>Should only take 5 minutes and give you an idea of the saving.  If you`re 
>>paying 15p per unit and you can get it for 10p, then it`s worth the 
>>effort. if you`d be saving 0.001p per unit then not so likely it`s worth 
>>the effort :-)
>
> But they don't price it as a single figure. It'll be so much for the first 
> XkW then so much for the next YkW etc. and no two suppliers will have the 
> same break points. Some suppliers will have separate standing charge and 
> some build the costs into the price of a unit.
>
> To be able to see which is cheaper you need to know your fuel consumption 
> for the year.

To know your exact final saving yes, but if you have a quick look you can 
usually get an idea how much you could be saving.

In message <g5nsgt$7qt$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Simon Finnigan 
 wrote

>To know your exact final saving yes, but if you have a quick look you 
>can usually get an idea how much you could be saving.
>

Try going to one of these sites and enter a realistic guestimate of your 
consumption. See who offers the best deals. Then put in figures 10% more 
than your first entry. You will probably find some of the previously top 
choices are now near the bottom of the list.

-- 
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

"Alan"  wrote in message 
news:xyPvwjArh3fIFw3p@amac.f2s.com...
> In message <g5nsgt$7qt$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Simon Finnigan 
>  wrote
>
>>To know your exact final saving yes, but if you have a quick look you can 
>>usually get an idea how much you could be saving.
>>
>
> Try going to one of these sites and enter a realistic guestimate of your 
> consumption. See who offers the best deals. Then put in figures 10% more 
> than your first entry. You will probably find some of the previously top 
> choices are now near the bottom of the list.

And if you`re paying 25% more for your gas now than you need to be because 
you`ve never bothered switching, then it doesn`t really matter who you move 
to, as you`ll still save money :-)

In message <d9PUz$Bva4eIFwqp@amac.f2s.com>, Alan 
 writes
>In message , Gordon H
> wrote
>>
>>I am still with originals, Brit Gas for gas and E-on, originally NWEB!
>>Sunday Times today suggests that British Gas are cheapest
>>capped rate dual fuel, but they mention an average annual fuel
>>cost of approximately £850.      My annual bill is less than that,
>>so I may look at Ebico, though Scottish Power seem to have
>>been consistently cheap.
>>Certainly I'm a lower consumption user.
>
>What is the AVERAGE fuel bill with Ebico?  If you are not the 'average'
>user the figure quoted is meaningless for you.
>
>For me dual fuel with British Gas was one of the better options. Many
>companies were within around £10/20 per year of each other when I
>entered my exact gas and electricity consumption for the previous 12
>months.
>
Funny you should say that!    I did the same this weekend, with two 
different switch sites, and BG came out tops, but by playing with the 
options I could make almost any come to the top.

The savings I would make arise from switching from quarterly bill to 
regular DD, going "dual-fuel" with one provider and opting for online 
operation of my account.

I could have played with the figures all day, and when you look at 
capped deals the saving vanishes, for a 12 month gamble on future price 
rises. .
-- 
Gordon H

"Gordon H"  wrote in message 
news:mZAfseIK8JjIFwXq@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> In message <d9PUz$Bva4eIFwqp@amac.f2s.com>, Alan  
> writes
>>In message , Gordon H
>> wrote
>>>
>>>I am still with originals, Brit Gas for gas and E-on, originally NWEB!
>>>Sunday Times today suggests that British Gas are cheapest
>>>capped rate dual fuel, but they mention an average annual fuel
>>>cost of approximately £850.      My annual bill is less than that,
>>>so I may look at Ebico, though Scottish Power seem to have
>>>been consistently cheap.
>>>Certainly I'm a lower consumption user.
>>
>>What is the AVERAGE fuel bill with Ebico?  If you are not the 'average'
>>user the figure quoted is meaningless for you.
>>
>>For me dual fuel with British Gas was one of the better options. Many
>>companies were within around £10/20 per year of each other when I
>>entered my exact gas and electricity consumption for the previous 12
>>months.
>>
> Funny you should say that!    I did the same this weekend, with two 
> different switch sites, and BG came out tops, but by playing with the 
> options I could make almost any come to the top.
>
> The savings I would make arise from switching from quarterly bill to 
> regular DD, going "dual-fuel" with one provider and opting for online 
> operation of my account.
>
> I could have played with the figures all day, and when you look at capped 
> deals the saving vanishes, for a 12 month gamble on future price rises. .
> -- 
> Gordon H

We've made a concerted effort to cut fuel usage and cost recently and 
changed from quarterly bills with two different providers to a dual fuel 
tarriff with BG.

We use very little gas, but have had high electricity bills for years.

Our long-term average for electric has been over 18 units per day and over 
the last week it is now down to 12.25, without any noticeable impact on our 
lifestyle.

The main change has been our fridge. If your fridge is over ten years old a 
modern A- rated one can use as little as 25% of the electricity. We got rid 
of a fridge/freezer and a separate fridge and replaced them both with a new 
bigger fridge/freezer.

Neb

"Gordon H"  wrote in message 
news:mZAfseIK8JjIFwXq@g3snx.demon.co.uk...

>
> I could have played with the figures all day, and when you look at capped 
> deals the saving vanishes, for a 12 month gamble on future price rises. .

Well, I waited for a while to see if you got any other hits, but no comments 
on this. So here's my 2p:

Gas is paid a year in advance by the gas suppliers. Hence we already know 
the prices they will be paying in a year's time. This is significantly more 
than now. Hence a good 'capped price' deal is worth while, because there is 
no gamble. The prices are going up significantly. However, you have now 
missed the boat on the best capped deals. They were switched off about two 
months ago.

John

In message <g6iel4$g9j$1@energise.enta.net>, Nebulous 
 writes
>
>We've made a concerted effort to cut fuel usage and cost recently and
>changed from quarterly bills with two different providers to a dual fuel
>tarriff with BG.
>
>We use very little gas, but have had high electricity bills for years.
>
>Our long-term average for electric has been over 18 units per day and over
>the last week it is now down to 12.25, without any noticeable impact on our
>lifestyle.
>
I just checked mine, (I live alone) and this quarter's average is 6.029 
units per day!
I must be doing something right, because this quarter in 2006 it was 
just over 9 units/day, and in 2007 it was over 10 units.

My smartest move was going from economy 7 electric storage heaters to 
GCH, about 9 years ago, and the saving was such that the combined bills 
have this year only just topped the year 2000 all-electric bill.

>The main change has been our fridge. If your fridge is over ten years old a
>modern A- rated one can use as little as 25% of the electricity. We got rid
>of a fridge/freezer and a separate fridge and replaced them both with a new
>bigger fridge/freezer.
>
I don't need a huge fridge-freezer, but I need a more energy efficient 
one, that would be worthwhile, as it is on 24/7, subject to thermostatic 
control.
We really have to take these things seriously now, rather than shrugging 
our shoulders and saying  "We can afford it".
-- 
Gordon H

In message <DIljk.77268$8t7.42585@newsfe10.ams2>, John E 
<JCE@myhouse.invalid> writes
>"Gordon H"  wrote in message 
>news:mZAfseIK8JjIFwXq@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
>
>>
>> I could have played with the figures all day, and when you look at 
>>capped  deals the saving vanishes, for a 12 month gamble on future 
>>price rises. .
>
>Well, I waited for a while to see if you got any other hits, but no 
>comments on this. So here's my 2p:
>
>Gas is paid a year in advance by the gas suppliers. Hence we already 
>know the prices they will be paying in a year's time. This is 
>significantly more than now. Hence a good 'capped price' deal is worth 
>while, because there is no gamble. The prices are going up 
>significantly. However, you have now missed the boat on the best capped 
>deals. They were switched off about two months ago.
>
>John
I'm afraid that is the conclusion I have come to.     :-(
-- 
Gordon H