-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

FAST TRACK ANNOUNCEMENT	    uk.net.providers.gradwell
=======================

In the procedures established for maintaining the uk.* hierarchy
<http://www.usenet.org.uk/guidelines.html> there are provisions, where
there is a consensus and the proposal is straightforward and
non-controversial, to proceed by the "fast-track" method, so as to avoid
the necessity for holding a full vote.

I have now received a request to fast-track the following proposal:

          create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.providers.gradwell

This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the posting
of this notice (i.e. not before July 7th), unless there are
objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the Committee
to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).

Objections should be emailed directly to Control at
.

Objections will be resolved by the committee (committee@usenet.org.uk)

============================================================================

Newsgroup line:
uk.net.providers.gradwell	Discussion of the ISP Gradwell


RATIONALE: uk.net.providers.gradwell

Gradwell (Gradwell dot com Ltd) has until now provided several
gradwell.* newsgroups on their own servers, for the benefit of their
customers.  They are being replaced with a combined web/usenet
discussion area and, because of additional changes in Usenet provision,
the gradwell.* hierarchy is being ceased.

Gradwell customers and staff who prefer Usenet to integrated web forums
are enthusiastic about the idea of a public newsgroup in the uk.*
hierarchy, and this approach also has the express support of the
Gradwell management.

CHARTER: uk.net.providers.gradwell

This group is for discussion of issues relating to the Internet Service
Provider Gradwell. This includes, but is not limited to, help
with services, discussion of new products and notification of outages.

This group has no official connection in any way with Gradwell.
However, Gradwell staff are encouraged to participate and provide
information, service updates, etc, just as they would in the internal
Gradwell newsgroups.

Advertising

Advertising is forbidden;  however, announcement and discussion of new
products and/or services from Gradwell is permitted.

Binaries & Formatting

Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are forbidden.
Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a pointer may be
posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where
authentication is important and should be as short as possible.

Posts must be readable as plain text. HTML, RTF and similarly formatted
messages are prohibited. To see how to make some
common newsreaders comply with this, read
<http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html>.

Warning. Anyone posting contrary to this charter may be reported to
their "postmaster" and/or Service Provider.

END CHARTER

Proponent:
        Molly Mockford <gradwellrfd(at)mollymockford.me.uk>

- -- 
Chris Croughton ---------------------------------------------------------------
Control
Voice/Fax: +44 1296 331055                        Email: control@usenet.org.uk
Snail: 155 Long Meadow, Aylesbury, Bucks HP21 7EB

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On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:34:27 +0100, Chris Croughton as Control
 wrote:

> I have now received a request to fast-track the following proposal:
>
>           create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.providers.gradwell
>
> This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the posting
> of this notice (i.e. not before July 7th), unless there are
> objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the Committee
> to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).

Result of "NEWGROUPS 090708 204932 GMT" on news.individual.net

"uk.net.providers.gradwell 0 0 y        Discussion of the ISP Gradwell"

Congratulations all around.

Tony

Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:45:53  
uk.net.news.config Anthony R. Gold 

>On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:34:27 +0100, Chris Croughton as Control
> wrote:
>
>> I have now received a request to fast-track the following proposal:
>>
>>           create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.providers.gradwell
>>
>> This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the posting
>> of this notice (i.e. not before July 7th), unless there are
>> objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the Committee
>> to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).
>
>Result of "NEWGROUPS 090708 204932 GMT" on news.individual.net
>
>"uk.net.providers.gradwell 0 0 y        Discussion of the ISP Gradwell"
>
>Congratulations all around.

Well done proponent and all.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:54:07 +0100, "Wm..."
 wrote:

>Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:45:53  
>uk.net.news.config Anthony R. Gold 
>
>>On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:34:27 +0100, Chris Croughton as Control
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have now received a request to fast-track the following proposal:
>>>
>>>           create unmoderated newsgroup uk.net.providers.gradwell
>>>
>>> This proposal will be activated no earlier than five days from the posting
>>> of this notice (i.e. not before July 7th), unless there are
>>> objections (of which six or more, or any one which seems to the Committee
>>> to be well founded, shall suffice to halt the process).
>>
>>Result of "NEWGROUPS 090708 204932 GMT" on news.individual.net
>>
>>"uk.net.providers.gradwell 0 0 y        Discussion of the ISP Gradwell"
>>
>>Congratulations all around.
>
>Well done proponent and all.

Not on the Gradwell news server yet though.


-- 
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd. 
SDL/MSC/TTCN/URN/UML2 for Visio  http://www.sdl.sandrila.co.uk/

At 13:36:59 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Paul Herber 
 wrote in 
:

>Not on the Gradwell news server yet though.

The Gradwell news servers are to be withdrawn - that is the reason for 
creating this group in the first place!  It's on news.individual.net, 
and on various free news-servers which I checked this morning, and 
presumably on those ISP news-servers which remain in existence - I have 
no reason not to believe that it's been propaly propagated.
-- 
Molly
I don't speak for the Committee.  If I ever do, it will be made
specifically clear.
My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not be so for ever.

Molly Mockford said:
> At 13:36:59 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Paul Herber
>  wrote in
> :
>
>> Not on the Gradwell news server yet though.
>
> The Gradwell news servers are to be withdrawn - that is the reason for
> creating this group in the first place!  It's on news.individual.net,
> and on various free news-servers which I checked this morning, and
> presumably on those ISP news-servers which remain in existence - I
> have no reason not to believe that it's been propaly propagated.

I can't find it on the virginmedia servers yet.


-- 
kat
   >^..^<

In gradwell.discuss Molly Mockford  wrote:
> At 13:36:59 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Paul Herber 
>  wrote in 
> :
> 
> >Not on the Gradwell news server yet though.
> 
> The Gradwell news servers are to be withdrawn - that is the reason for 
> creating this group in the first place!  It's on news.individual.net, 
> and on various free news-servers which I checked this morning, and 
> presumably on those ISP news-servers which remain in existence - I have 
> no reason not to believe that it's been propaly propagated.

Yebbut I understood that we would be given an outsourced news service
to replace news.gradwell.net - what is the address of the replacement
and does it carry the new group yet ?.

In message <NwhvniTQG0VKFw5a@molly.mockford>, dated Fri, 10 Jul 2009 at 
14:26:40, Molly Mockford  writes
>At 13:36:59 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Paul Herber 
> wrote in 
>:
>
>>Not on the Gradwell news server yet though.
>
>The Gradwell news servers are to be withdrawn - that is the reason for 
>creating this group in the first place!  It's on news.individual.net, 
>and on various free news-servers which I checked this morning, and 
>presumably on those ISP news-servers which remain in existence - I have 
>no reason not to believe that it's been propaly propagated.

Pardon? My understanding was that Gradwell will at some point soon 
replace their own 'in-house' Usenet News service/servers with a third 
party offering which would also mean the ceasing of the 'gradwell.' 
heirarchy. The latter fact is the main reason for the new group. At this 
moment in time the Gradwell in-house servers are still operational and I 
have received no notifications of any 'migration' to the third party 
service. It would therefore seem quite reasonable to expect to have the 
new newsgroup available via the current Gradwell feed.

Chris
-- 
Chris Salter
http://www.originalthinktank.org.uk/

Chris Salter  wrote:

> It would therefore seem quite reasonable to expect to have the 
> new newsgroup available via the current Gradwell feed.

This seems like an ideal subject to discuss in
uk.net.providers.gradwell, and off-topic in unnc.

<ducks and runs for cover>

Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:43:31  
uk.net.news.config kat 

>I can't find it on the virginmedia servers yet.

Not on giganews either at the time of typing.  I'm sure it will be along 
shortly if nin has it.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

In uk.net.news.config message <NwhvniTQG0VKFw5a@molly.mockford>, Fri, 10
Jul 2009 14:26:40, Molly Mockford 
posted:
>
>The Gradwell news servers are to be withdrawn - that is the reason for
>creating this group in the first place!  It's on news.individual.net,
>and on various free news-servers which I checked this morning, and
>presumably on those ISP news-servers which remain in existence - I have
>no reason not to believe that it's been propaly propagated.

From here, as of about 18:35 BST today, apparently AIOE has it, but not
eternal-september or Demon.  But I have not explicitly refreshed ant
newsgroup lists since shortly after e-s was announced.

-- 
 (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK.  ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk   Turnpike v6.05   MIME.
 Web  <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
 Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
 Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "> " (SonOfRFC1036)

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:44:14 +0100, Dr J R Stockton wrote:

> From here, as of about 18:35 BST today, apparently AIOE has it, but not
> eternal-september or Demon.  But I have not explicitly refreshed ant
> newsgroup lists since shortly after e-s was announced.

I've just asked Virginmedia to put it on the feeds for both their 
internal (text groups only) server and the outsourced "full feed" server 
(HighWinds).  I expect it to take a week or three and a few reminders 
before it appears, esp. where HW are concerned.

-- 
Dave
Lost.  Unique sig line.  Reward offered.

On 2009-07-10, Steve Firth wrote:

> Chris Salter  wrote:
>
>> It would therefore seem quite reasonable to expect to have the 
>> new newsgroup available via the current Gradwell feed.
>
> This seems like an ideal subject to discuss in
> uk.net.providers.gradwell, and off-topic in unnc.
>
><ducks and runs for cover>

I can't argue with logic like that.

On 2009-07-10, Chris Salter  wrote:
> In message <NwhvniTQG0VKFw5a@molly.mockford>, dated Fri, 10 Jul 2009 at 
> 14:26:40, Molly Mockford  writes
>>At 13:36:59 on Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Paul Herber 
>> wrote in 
>>:
>>
>>>Not on the Gradwell news server yet though.
>>
>>The Gradwell news servers are to be withdrawn - that is the reason for 
>>creating this group in the first place!  It's on news.individual.net, 
>>and on various free news-servers which I checked this morning, and 
>>presumably on those ISP news-servers which remain in existence - I have 
>>no reason not to believe that it's been propaly propagated.
>
> Pardon? My understanding was that Gradwell will at some point soon 
> replace their own 'in-house' Usenet News service/servers with a third 
> party offering which would also mean the ceasing of the 'gradwell.' 
> heirarchy. The latter fact is the main reason for the new group. At this 
> moment in time the Gradwell in-house servers are still operational and I 
> have received no notifications of any 'migration' to the third party 
> service. It would therefore seem quite reasonable to expect to have the 
> new newsgroup available via the current Gradwell feed.

OK, to let you know what has happened so far:

I (as Control) issued the newgroup message on Wednesday 8th July at around
9:30 PM, via the Gradwell news server.  An hour later I was still unable to
inject the Charter to the new newsgroup, getting a "441 Nonexistent
newsgroup(s)" error.  On Thursday it was reported that NIN had the newsgroup,
but I still couldn't submit the charter via the Gradwell news server.

On Friday I reported this to Peter, and had a reply saying that they "probably
don't accept those sorts of messages" (they always have in the past, but who
knows?) and that he would be away but would create the newsgroup on Monday
morning worst case.

I had a look on the Stanford FTP archive of newsgroup messages.  The results
are here:

ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/control/uk/uk.net.providers.gradwell.gz

That clearly shows both my original control message and the followup which I
sent on Sunday (just in case the original has a bad PGP signature or something
I sent it from my home system which has worked in the past).  Still nothing.
I still (21:45 today) get the same error message from the Gradwell server.

I've seen 4 messages on uk.net.providers.gradwell (Google groups concurs) via
NIN, then nothing.  Has anyone else managed to see it on the Gradwell server?
(And if so, what IP address are you seeing for the news server?)

Crossposted to uk.net.news.config, gradwell.discuss, uk.net.news.gradwell,
followups not set so I have a chance of seeing a reply (note that if they
still don't have the group on the server it will probably reject a message
trying to post to it)...

Chris C

At 20:59:50 on Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Chris Croughton  
wrote in :

... and sent it to 
uk.net.news.config,gradwell.discuss,uk.net.news.gradwell.  That last one 
should, of course, be uk.net.providers.gradwell; corrected in this 
reply.

>On Friday I reported this to Peter, and had a reply saying that they 
>"probably don't accept those sorts of messages" (they always have in 
>the past, but who knows?) and that he would be away but would create 
>the newsgroup on Monday morning worst case.

I gather (from discussion in gradwell.discuss) that the last time a 
couple of groups were added, Peter did this manually;  for some reason, 
things don't seem to be on auto.

>I've seen 4 messages on uk.net.providers.gradwell (Google groups concurs) via
>NIN, then nothing.

There are eight messages on the group.  It will get busier as soon as 
Gradwell add it!  As well as being available on NIN, it's available on 
the free server <http://news.aioe.org/>.

>Crossposted to uk.net.news.config, gradwell.discuss, uk.net.news.gradwell,
>followups not set so I have a chance of seeing a reply (note that if they
>still don't have the group on the server it will probably reject a message
>trying to post to it)...

Certainly under the name of uk.net.news.gradwell... :-)
-- 
Molly
I don't speak for the Committee.  If I ever do, it will be made
specifically clear.
My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not be so for ever.

On 2009-07-14, Molly Mockford  wrote:
> At 20:59:50 on Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Chris Croughton  
> wrote in :
>
> ... and sent it to 
> uk.net.news.config,gradwell.discuss,uk.net.news.gradwell.  That last one 
> should, of course, be uk.net.providers.gradwell; corrected in this 
> reply.

Duh.  I should-a gone to bed (or at least copy-and-pasted rather than typing
it in)...

>>On Friday I reported this to Peter, and had a reply saying that they 
>>"probably don't accept those sorts of messages" (they always have in 
>>the past, but who knows?) and that he would be away but would create 
>>the newsgroup on Monday morning worst case.
>
> I gather (from discussion in gradwell.discuss) that the last time a 
> couple of groups were added, Peter did this manually;  for some reason, 
> things don't seem to be on auto.

Ah.  The previous ones I've injected through Gradwell I've checked NIN, and as
far as I recall by the time I've gotten round to posting the charter it's been
on Gradwell as well so perhaps he was just faster creating those.

>>I've seen 4 messages on uk.net.providers.gradwell (Google groups concurs) via
>>NIN, then nothing.
>
> There are eight messages on the group.  It will get busier as soon as 
> Gradwell add it!  As well as being available on NIN, it's available on 
> the free server <http://news.aioe.org/>.

Yes, I was thinking that if someone posts on the existing groups there people
will know about it.

>>Crossposted to uk.net.news.config, gradwell.discuss, uk.net.news.gradwell,
>>followups not set so I have a chance of seeing a reply (note that if they
>>still don't have the group on the server it will probably reject a message
>>trying to post to it)...
>
> Certainly under the name of uk.net.news.gradwell... :-)

I'm not going to live that down, am I?  *g*

Chris C

Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:57:29  
uk.net.news.config Chris Croughton 

>> Certainly under the name of uk.net.news.gradwell... :-)
>
>I'm not going to live that down, am I?  *g*

I dunno.

It may be less embarrassing than having formed a good message and it not 
having got to the right place.

as at the time of typing giganews doesn't know about the new group

as at the time of typing highwinds (news.demon.co.uk) knows about the 
new group but has no postings.

between the two above we are talking about a lot of people.

I wonder if Control is sending messages to servers "in control" ?

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:22:27  
uk.net.news.config Wm... 

[ff to self]

>between the two above we are talking about a lot of people.
>
>I wonder if Control is sending messages to servers "in control" ?

P.S. I've written to giganews asking them to add the group.  Let us see 
if that works in getting it propagated.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:47:27  
uk.net.news.config Wm... 

>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:22:27  
>uk.net.news.config Wm... 
>
>[ff to self]

[again]

>>between the two above we are talking about a lot of people.
>>
>>I wonder if Control is sending messages to servers "in control" ?
>
>P.S. I've written to giganews asking them to add the group.  Let us see 
>if that works in getting it propagated.

This is getting very strange.

I've had a reply from gn and the answer seems to be

===
Unfortunately, we are not able to add your requested group(s).

After searching through ISC's archives:

ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/CONFIG/active

we could not find an active listing for the newsgroup that you 
requested.
===

which seems odd.

I think I, as a person that isn't a gradwell customer, have done my bit 
for now.

I am guessing that there was something fundamentally wrong with the cmsg 
and that the group shouldn't actually have been created by any 
responsible / major news server.

Interestingly gn have said that if I use the group and provide headers 
of other people using it they might create it.

I can't do that.

Control, is there a mistake in the cmsg?

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

Wm... wrote:

gn>
> we could not find an active listing for the newsgroup that you 
> requested.

There's a line in that file which says

  uk.net.providers.gradwell 0000000000 0000000001 y

Should there be something more?

Chris

Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:37:19 <4a61b3f1$0$31035$bed64819@news.gradwell.net> 
uk.net.news.config Chris Lawrence 

>Wm... wrote:
>
>gn>
>> we could not find an active listing for the newsgroup that you
>> requested.
>
>There's a line in that file which says
>
>  uk.net.providers.gradwell 0000000000 0000000001 y
>
>Should there be something more?

I'm not sure.  I pointed that out to gn in my private reply to them that 
preceded my posting here.

Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation process, 
what exactly I don't know.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

Wm... wrote:

> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation process, 
> what exactly I don't know.

Maybe there's more to "an active listing" than just that line.  As you
say it seems to have not propogated properly.  I guess Chris can shed
more light on it.

Chris

"Wm..."  wrote in
news:Q3SiEKZRjbYKFwDf@[127.0.0.1]: 

> Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:37:19
> <4a61b3f1$0$31035$bed64819@news.gradwell.net> uk.net.news.config
> Chris Lawrence  
> 
>>Wm... wrote:
>>
>>gn>
>>> we could not find an active listing for the newsgroup that you
>>> requested.
>>
>>There's a line in that file which says
>>
>>  uk.net.providers.gradwell 0000000000 0000000001 y
>>
>>Should there be something more?
> 
> I'm not sure.  I pointed that out to gn in my private reply to
> them that preceded my posting here.
> 
> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation
> process, what exactly I don't know.
> 

The general muddle of various servers acquiring it with various 
degrees of competence and promptness seems more or less as expected 
to me.

-- 
Percy Picacity

Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:45:31  
uk.net.news.config Percy Picacity <key@under.the.invalid>

>> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation
>> process, what exactly I don't know.
>>
>
>The general muddle of various servers acquiring it with various
>degrees of competence and promptness seems more or less as expected
>to me.

Perhaps Control should, in future, start with NIN (or a similar 
independent) rather than the brand name news server about which the 
group is concerned.

Even a leaf falling from a tree at the wrong time of year should have 
considered that.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

Chris Lawrence  writes:
> Wm... wrote:

>> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation process, 
>> what exactly I don't know.
>
> Maybe there's more to "an active listing" than just that line.

Looks like a perfectly valid active file entry to me.  Maybe GN looked
at an older version of the file, or just not very hard.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On 18 Jul 2009 "Wm..."  wrote in
news:STxi9KcfxeYKFwQ7@[127.0.0.1]: 

> Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:45:31
>  uk.net.news.config
> Percy Picacity <key@under.the.invalid> 
> 
>>> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation
>>> process, what exactly I don't know.
>>>
>>
>>The general muddle of various servers acquiring it with various
>>degrees of competence and promptness seems more or less as
>>expected to me.
> 
> Perhaps Control should, in future, start with NIN (or a similar 
> independent) rather than the brand name news server about which
> the group is concerned.

The fact that the control message propogated to (and was acted on at)
Stanford (to make the ISC archive) and NIN indicated there was nothing 
wrong with the message itself.

Seems that fewer and fewer servers are set up to act automatically on 
control messages. I've made a request to eternal-september.org (free 
server, used to be mozzerella.org).
-- 
Graham Drabble
http://www.drabble.me.uk/

Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:57:56 
 uk.net.news.config 
Richard Kettlewell 

>Chris Lawrence  writes:
>> Wm... wrote:
>
>>> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation process,
>>> what exactly I don't know.
>>
>> Maybe there's more to "an active listing" than just that line.
>
>Looks like a perfectly valid active file entry to me.  Maybe GN looked
>at an older version of the file, or just not very hard.

I've sent GN another message asking for someone more technically aware 
to look at it.

I'll report back as and when.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

Graham Drabble  wrote in
news:Xns9C4CAD5914A30grahamdrabblelineone@drabble.me.uk: 

> On 18 Jul 2009 "Wm..."  wrote
> in news:STxi9KcfxeYKFwQ7@[127.0.0.1]: 
> 
>> Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:45:31
>>  uk.net.news.config
>> Percy Picacity <key@under.the.invalid> 
>> 
>>>> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation
>>>> process, what exactly I don't know.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The general muddle of various servers acquiring it with various
>>>degrees of competence and promptness seems more or less as
>>>expected to me.
>> 
>> Perhaps Control should, in future, start with NIN (or a similar 
>> independent) rather than the brand name news server about which
>> the group is concerned.
> 
> The fact that the control message propogated to (and was acted on
> at) Stanford (to make the ISC archive) and NIN indicated there was
> nothing wrong with the message itself.
> 
> Seems that fewer and fewer servers are set up to act automatically
> on control messages. I've made a request to eternal-september.org
> (free server, used to be mozzerella.org).

The news provider I subscribe to had the group within hours:  I 
cannot, of course, say whether this was automatic or manual.

-- 
Percy Picacity

Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:53:36 <$ii5BaeQ4fYKFwmE@[127.0.0.1]> 
uk.net.news.config Wm... 

[ff to self]

>I'll report back as and when.

GN say it may take a week or two, my interpretation is that uk.* isn't 
as highly regarded as we think :(

Sorry gradwell folk, I've done my best.  If it was *my* group I could 
say "if you don't do it now I'll stop sending you money" and so on.

But this is probably all immaterial, really.

It appears to me the base problem is that the initial injection point 
doesn't give a fuck about people wanting to talk about it.

Not surprising.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days

In article <wyZ61ci+2gYKFwXy@[127.0.0.1]>,
 Wm...  writes:
>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:53:36 <$ii5BaeQ4fYKFwmE@[127.0.0.1]>
>uk.net.news.config Wm... 
>
>[ff to self]
>
>>I'll report back as and when.
>
>GN say it may take a week or two,

That's ridiculous. How hard can it be?

> my interpretation is that uk.* isn't as highly regarded as we think :(

Yes, it does rather look as if they're saying that they really can't be
bothered. I'm glad that I use NIN, who were very quick in adding the
group and who seem to know what they are about. Maybe Teutonic
efficiency isn't just a myth.

>snip>
-- 
John Hall        "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
                  pays off now."  Anon

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.net.news.config.]
On 2009-07-18, Wm...  wrote:
> Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:45:31  
> uk.net.news.config Percy Picacity <key@under.the.invalid>
>
>>> Something isn't working as expected with this group's creation
>>> process, what exactly I don't know.
>>>
>>
>>The general muddle of various servers acquiring it with various
>>degrees of competence and promptness seems more or less as expected
>>to me.
>
> Perhaps Control should, in future, start with NIN (or a similar 
> independent) rather than the brand name news server about which the 
> group is concerned.
>
> Even a leaf falling from a tree at the wrong time of year should have 
> considered that.

NIN do not currently allow me (or, as far as I know, any other 'user') to post
Control messages.  It is something I will be investigating, because we
evidently need a backup posting system.  If you know of any other
'independent' news host which does allow posting of Control messages please
let me know (that's a generic 'you', not just you specifically).

Note that the message /did/ get out of Gradwell successfully, even though they
didn't act on it themselves.

Chris C

On 20 Jul 2009 Chris Croughton  wrote in
news:7ck1s2F280qd1U1@mid.individual.net: 

> NIN do not currently allow me (or, as far as I know, any other
> 'user') to post Control messages.  It is something I will be
> investigating, because we evidently need a backup posting system. 
> If you know of any other 'independent' news host which does allow
> posting of Control messages please let me know (that's a generic
> 'you', not just you specifically). 

NIN will let you if you ask. I suspect that eternal-september.org would 
as well.

However it appears that there was nothing wrong with the cmsg at all, 
it propogated and was processed as a valid message in many places. 
Those places that didn't add it automatically will be the ones not 
configured (deliberately or otherwise) to do so.

-- 
Graham Drabble
http://www.drabble.me.uk/

In  Graham Drabble  writes:

>On 20 Jul 2009 Chris Croughton  wrote in
>news:7ck1s2F280qd1U1@mid.individual.net: 

>> NIN do not currently allow me (or, as far as I know, any other
>> 'user') to post Control messages.  It is something I will be
>> investigating, because we evidently need a backup posting system. 
>> If you know of any other 'independent' news host which does allow
>> posting of Control messages please let me know (that's a generic
>> 'you', not just you specifically). 

>NIN will let you if you ask. I suspect that eternal-september.org would 
>as well.

Indeed they do. They certainly accept them from me (and they accept
Approved headers for moderated groups from me, too).

Just sign your request to them with control's PGP sig.

-- 
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131            Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5

Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:48:16 <A5$v9cKAciYKFwwZ@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid> 
uk.net.news.config John Hall 

>In article <wyZ61ci+2gYKFwXy@[127.0.0.1]>,
> Wm...  writes:
>>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:53:36 <$ii5BaeQ4fYKFwmE@[127.0.0.1]>
>>uk.net.news.config Wm... 
>>
>>[ff to self]
>>
>>>I'll report back as and when.
>>
>>GN say it may take a week or two,
>
>That's ridiculous. How hard can it be?
>
>> my interpretation is that uk.* isn't as highly regarded as we think :(
>
>Yes, it does rather look as if they're saying that they really can't be
>bothered. I'm glad that I use NIN, who were very quick in adding the
>group and who seem to know what they are about. Maybe Teutonic
>efficiency isn't just a myth.

GN have uk.net.providers.gradwell now (I haven't been checking daily) 
but, it appears, nothing in the group apart from the cmsg.

Highwinds (news.dcu) has a bit of traffic (16 postings less 1 for the 
cmsg)

Hopefully no-one said anything important that was missed.

-- 
Wm...
Reply-To: address valid for at least 7 days