I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

Bruce Stewart  wrote:

> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.

For anyone thinking about this approach, there's an article in the
curren issue of Personal Computer World.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"PC Paul"  wrote in message 
news:oYlwi.6929$cw7.5296@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> djimbo wrote:
>>
>> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
>> recorders don't yet exist -
>> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
>>
>
> I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
> reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...
>
> *I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
> knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to the 
> manufacturers for some reason.

Yes I know, I feel the same... why don't these people make what WE want not 
what they want to make?
My guess though is that as soon as the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Philippinoes 
perceive a mass market appeal for these things, they will happen.
Particularly as they're ALWAYS on the lookout for the next 'boom' object to 
flood the market with, and to bouy up the flagging brown goods market 
generaly.
Have a look how many different brands of VHS to DVD machines the box 
shifters now have available.
When it happens it will be overnight and you're choice will be from Humax to 
Sony in price range with all the twiddly in between bits
like Sanyo & LuckyGoldstar.
I'm quite surprised the Topfield people have taken this long to wake up to 
the fact that they could be runaway market leaders with such a machine, it 
would be a shame if they were to lose the lead they've built up, 
particularly among the 'technically minded' users who usually drive these 
trends in the market.

(Oh the DUH! was just for previous replies who hadn't even read my post but 
felt the need to point out the (bleedin) obvious to me ;-)
(too many brackets, that's just the PASCAL in my soul)
rgds...
Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bruce Stewart"  wrote in message 
news:RGmwi.6944$cw7.4634@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.
>
> Bruce S

Hi Bruce..
I wish we had cable out here in the boonies...
Yep, advocating the use of Linux in the box puts you firmly at the head of 
the techno brigade, a whole order of magnitude beyond the average Topfield 
user ;-)
Do you have a liquid cooled PSU too?
OK, It can also be achieved to a greater or lesser degree by the slightly 
less technically adept with a Windaz peecee (As I do) but the thrust of my 
comments were towards mass-market  availability, where people want a 'black 
box' to match the amp that'll do it all from the arm chair (Without a 
buzzing lashup box hidden behind the TV)..
My xtal balls seem to be tingling to say it won't be long now before the 
manufacturers wake up to this need.

Djimbo..



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

Bruce Stewart  wrote:

> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.

For anyone thinking about this approach, there's an article in the
curren issue of Personal Computer World.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"PC Paul"  wrote in message 
news:oYlwi.6929$cw7.5296@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> djimbo wrote:
>>
>> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
>> recorders don't yet exist -
>> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
>>
>
> I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
> reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...
>
> *I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
> knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to the 
> manufacturers for some reason.

Yes I know, I feel the same... why don't these people make what WE want not 
what they want to make?
My guess though is that as soon as the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Philippinoes 
perceive a mass market appeal for these things, they will happen.
Particularly as they're ALWAYS on the lookout for the next 'boom' object to 
flood the market with, and to bouy up the flagging brown goods market 
generaly.
Have a look how many different brands of VHS to DVD machines the box 
shifters now have available.
When it happens it will be overnight and you're choice will be from Humax to 
Sony in price range with all the twiddly in between bits
like Sanyo & LuckyGoldstar.
I'm quite surprised the Topfield people have taken this long to wake up to 
the fact that they could be runaway market leaders with such a machine, it 
would be a shame if they were to lose the lead they've built up, 
particularly among the 'technically minded' users who usually drive these 
trends in the market.

(Oh the DUH! was just for previous replies who hadn't even read my post but 
felt the need to point out the (bleedin) obvious to me ;-)
(too many brackets, that's just the PASCAL in my soul)
rgds...
Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bruce Stewart"  wrote in message 
news:RGmwi.6944$cw7.4634@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.
>
> Bruce S

Hi Bruce..
I wish we had cable out here in the boonies...
Yep, advocating the use of Linux in the box puts you firmly at the head of 
the techno brigade, a whole order of magnitude beyond the average Topfield 
user ;-)
Do you have a liquid cooled PSU too?
OK, It can also be achieved to a greater or lesser degree by the slightly 
less technically adept with a Windaz peecee (As I do) but the thrust of my 
comments were towards mass-market  availability, where people want a 'black 
box' to match the amp that'll do it all from the arm chair (Without a 
buzzing lashup box hidden behind the TV)..
My xtal balls seem to be tingling to say it won't be long now before the 
manufacturers wake up to this need.

Djimbo..



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> ships with Satellite tuners.

I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When 
you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any 
possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they 
will then preinstall for you.

A DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-T tuners (which is what I ordered) was 
more expensive than a DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-S tuners, though, so 
you're probably right in that the "default" option seems to be 2×DVB-S 
tuners.

You can also choose whether you want your DM 7025 with or without a 
preinstalled HDD.

For me, one of the main reasons for getting a DM 7025 was its capability 
of recording directly to network shares. I didn't want a "local" HDD in 
the actual set-top box at all and so didn't order one. Instead, I have a 
separate Linux server (actually, just an old clunky PC that couldn't 
possibly handle today's desktop apps) sitting in a closet at the other 
end of the house. The recordings go there over the home network. One of 
the advantages of this setup is that the DM 7025 - missing a local HDD 
or any other moving parts - is completely silent when recording or 
playing back the recordings.

A stand-alone NAS device or a Windows PC would have done just as well 
for remote storage. The Dreambox doesn't really care as long as it can 
access the remote HDD via a shared folder. But I already had that Linux 
server running there in the closet as it is used for other tasks, too - 
it is acting as a firewall for the entire home network, and as a 
personal web server for the family - so I figured it could be used for 
this purpose just as well.

> I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.

See above.

> When I've priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which
> is significnatly more than the Topfield and more than I'd like to
> spend.

The DM 7025 is pretty expensive, that's true.

> Also how does the level of support for user developed software
> for the Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

 - The actual PVR software (Enigma 2) that the remote control
   wielding user sees on his tv screen is open source and under
   the GPL licence; you can hack the thing to your heart's
   content.

 - You can program your plugins in Python. (Also in C or C++
   or whatever, if you want to, but even most of the original
   user interface logic is written in Python.)

 - The device is running Linux behind the curtains - with
   everything that that entails. For example, you can log in
   to your DM 7025 over the network via telnet/ssh and run
   Linux commands/programs. The default firmware image comes
   with a Busybox shell environment, telnet and ssh servers,
   and the "joe" text editor if you want to examine the
   underbelly of the machine. There's even a Samba server
   running by default. (If you have a local HDD installed,
   it's sort of like a NAS at the same time.) You can compile
   and run Linux programs/services that run in the background
   and that can be totally unrelated to the set-top box
   functionality (such as IRC or IM clients, the "screen"
   terminal multiplexer, etc.) I've even had an old-fashioned
   "dumb" serial terminal connected to the serial port,
   providing an access to the command prompt locally...
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc.jpg> ...but
   you can also do that on the tv screen, with a USB or an
   IR keyboard:
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc-2.jpg>. So
   it's pretty flexible.

 - There is a web interface for viewing the EPG and setting
   up timers over the network - even when you're physically
   far away from the box.

 - There are unofficial customized software releases from
   various 3rd parties (with preinstalled plugins and
   enhancements, etc.)

 - There's even an alternative PVR software (Neutrino) that
   fully replaces the original one (Enigma 2), if you'd rather
   use something different.

 - There is semi-shady cardsharing software that allows
   sharing smartcards with the other Dreamboxes in the
   house. (The other Dreamboxes do not need to be the
   same model.)

 - The DM 7025 can record an unspecified number of services
   (programmes) simultaneously as long as they're located
   within at most two multiplexes at any given time. For
   example, recording four or five programmes simultaneously
   is no biggie. You can also record the same channel in
   multiple files simultaneously which may come handy if
   you're making use of the built-in feature that allows
   automatically extending timed EPG recordings in both
   directions by a predefined amount of minutes. (Does the
   DM 7025 / Enigma 2 support "Freeview Playback"? Not yet,
   to my knowledge, but feel free to add the support for
   that - it's open source, after all.)

The user community is less organized than on the Topfield side, though. 
There are many Dreambox forums out there (one of them "offical" and 
maintained by Dream Multimedia themselves) but the majority of them seem 
to be German-speaking, or mixed language with English subforums and 
English language threads among the German discussions.

There are also sites which collect and offer plugins and unofficial 
firmware images for download (so that you don't have to hunt them down 
from the authors' websites or random forum threads), but currently 
nothing as nice or organized as some of the main TAP sites for the 
Topfield models.

-- 
znark

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

Bruce Stewart  wrote:

> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.

For anyone thinking about this approach, there's an article in the
curren issue of Personal Computer World.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"PC Paul"  wrote in message 
news:oYlwi.6929$cw7.5296@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> djimbo wrote:
>>
>> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
>> recorders don't yet exist -
>> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
>>
>
> I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
> reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...
>
> *I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
> knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to the 
> manufacturers for some reason.

Yes I know, I feel the same... why don't these people make what WE want not 
what they want to make?
My guess though is that as soon as the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Philippinoes 
perceive a mass market appeal for these things, they will happen.
Particularly as they're ALWAYS on the lookout for the next 'boom' object to 
flood the market with, and to bouy up the flagging brown goods market 
generaly.
Have a look how many different brands of VHS to DVD machines the box 
shifters now have available.
When it happens it will be overnight and you're choice will be from Humax to 
Sony in price range with all the twiddly in between bits
like Sanyo & LuckyGoldstar.
I'm quite surprised the Topfield people have taken this long to wake up to 
the fact that they could be runaway market leaders with such a machine, it 
would be a shame if they were to lose the lead they've built up, 
particularly among the 'technically minded' users who usually drive these 
trends in the market.

(Oh the DUH! was just for previous replies who hadn't even read my post but 
felt the need to point out the (bleedin) obvious to me ;-)
(too many brackets, that's just the PASCAL in my soul)
rgds...
Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bruce Stewart"  wrote in message 
news:RGmwi.6944$cw7.4634@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.
>
> Bruce S

Hi Bruce..
I wish we had cable out here in the boonies...
Yep, advocating the use of Linux in the box puts you firmly at the head of 
the techno brigade, a whole order of magnitude beyond the average Topfield 
user ;-)
Do you have a liquid cooled PSU too?
OK, It can also be achieved to a greater or lesser degree by the slightly 
less technically adept with a Windaz peecee (As I do) but the thrust of my 
comments were towards mass-market  availability, where people want a 'black 
box' to match the amp that'll do it all from the arm chair (Without a 
buzzing lashup box hidden behind the TV)..
My xtal balls seem to be tingling to say it won't be long now before the 
manufacturers wake up to this need.

Djimbo..



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> ships with Satellite tuners.

I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When 
you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any 
possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they 
will then preinstall for you.

A DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-T tuners (which is what I ordered) was 
more expensive than a DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-S tuners, though, so 
you're probably right in that the "default" option seems to be 2×DVB-S 
tuners.

You can also choose whether you want your DM 7025 with or without a 
preinstalled HDD.

For me, one of the main reasons for getting a DM 7025 was its capability 
of recording directly to network shares. I didn't want a "local" HDD in 
the actual set-top box at all and so didn't order one. Instead, I have a 
separate Linux server (actually, just an old clunky PC that couldn't 
possibly handle today's desktop apps) sitting in a closet at the other 
end of the house. The recordings go there over the home network. One of 
the advantages of this setup is that the DM 7025 - missing a local HDD 
or any other moving parts - is completely silent when recording or 
playing back the recordings.

A stand-alone NAS device or a Windows PC would have done just as well 
for remote storage. The Dreambox doesn't really care as long as it can 
access the remote HDD via a shared folder. But I already had that Linux 
server running there in the closet as it is used for other tasks, too - 
it is acting as a firewall for the entire home network, and as a 
personal web server for the family - so I figured it could be used for 
this purpose just as well.

> I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.

See above.

> When I've priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which
> is significnatly more than the Topfield and more than I'd like to
> spend.

The DM 7025 is pretty expensive, that's true.

> Also how does the level of support for user developed software
> for the Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

 - The actual PVR software (Enigma 2) that the remote control
   wielding user sees on his tv screen is open source and under
   the GPL licence; you can hack the thing to your heart's
   content.

 - You can program your plugins in Python. (Also in C or C++
   or whatever, if you want to, but even most of the original
   user interface logic is written in Python.)

 - The device is running Linux behind the curtains - with
   everything that that entails. For example, you can log in
   to your DM 7025 over the network via telnet/ssh and run
   Linux commands/programs. The default firmware image comes
   with a Busybox shell environment, telnet and ssh servers,
   and the "joe" text editor if you want to examine the
   underbelly of the machine. There's even a Samba server
   running by default. (If you have a local HDD installed,
   it's sort of like a NAS at the same time.) You can compile
   and run Linux programs/services that run in the background
   and that can be totally unrelated to the set-top box
   functionality (such as IRC or IM clients, the "screen"
   terminal multiplexer, etc.) I've even had an old-fashioned
   "dumb" serial terminal connected to the serial port,
   providing an access to the command prompt locally...
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc.jpg> ...but
   you can also do that on the tv screen, with a USB or an
   IR keyboard:
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc-2.jpg>. So
   it's pretty flexible.

 - There is a web interface for viewing the EPG and setting
   up timers over the network - even when you're physically
   far away from the box.

 - There are unofficial customized software releases from
   various 3rd parties (with preinstalled plugins and
   enhancements, etc.)

 - There's even an alternative PVR software (Neutrino) that
   fully replaces the original one (Enigma 2), if you'd rather
   use something different.

 - There is semi-shady cardsharing software that allows
   sharing smartcards with the other Dreamboxes in the
   house. (The other Dreamboxes do not need to be the
   same model.)

 - The DM 7025 can record an unspecified number of services
   (programmes) simultaneously as long as they're located
   within at most two multiplexes at any given time. For
   example, recording four or five programmes simultaneously
   is no biggie. You can also record the same channel in
   multiple files simultaneously which may come handy if
   you're making use of the built-in feature that allows
   automatically extending timed EPG recordings in both
   directions by a predefined amount of minutes. (Does the
   DM 7025 / Enigma 2 support "Freeview Playback"? Not yet,
   to my knowledge, but feel free to add the support for
   that - it's open source, after all.)

The user community is less organized than on the Topfield side, though. 
There are many Dreambox forums out there (one of them "offical" and 
maintained by Dream Multimedia themselves) but the majority of them seem 
to be German-speaking, or mixed language with English subforums and 
English language threads among the German discussions.

There are also sites which collect and offer plugins and unofficial 
firmware images for download (so that you don't have to hunt them down 
from the authors' websites or random forum threads), but currently 
nothing as nice or organized as some of the main TAP sites for the 
Topfield models.

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:0ECwi.207538$ji2.105484@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> > I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> > ships with Satellite tuners.
>
> I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When
> you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any
> possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they
> will then preinstall for you.
> <snip>
>..........................
> </snip>
> -- 
> znark
>

Food for thought.... Thanks for the feedback..... I like the idea of not
running an HDD in the box.  Presumably this avoids at least some of the
issues around dissipation of heat when the box is running?
Two further questions:-
1.  If I purchase a Dreambox wihtout HDD and with 2 DVB-T tuners.  How much
is it liekyl to se me back?
2.  I don't have Linux in my skill set so can I get by setting up and using
the box with a remote HDD without it?
--
David Wainwright
Web:  http://www.brsince78.co.uk
Email: david@-deletethisbit-brsince78.co.uk

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

Bruce Stewart  wrote:

> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.

For anyone thinking about this approach, there's an article in the
curren issue of Personal Computer World.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"PC Paul"  wrote in message 
news:oYlwi.6929$cw7.5296@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> djimbo wrote:
>>
>> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
>> recorders don't yet exist -
>> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
>>
>
> I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
> reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...
>
> *I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
> knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to the 
> manufacturers for some reason.

Yes I know, I feel the same... why don't these people make what WE want not 
what they want to make?
My guess though is that as soon as the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Philippinoes 
perceive a mass market appeal for these things, they will happen.
Particularly as they're ALWAYS on the lookout for the next 'boom' object to 
flood the market with, and to bouy up the flagging brown goods market 
generaly.
Have a look how many different brands of VHS to DVD machines the box 
shifters now have available.
When it happens it will be overnight and you're choice will be from Humax to 
Sony in price range with all the twiddly in between bits
like Sanyo & LuckyGoldstar.
I'm quite surprised the Topfield people have taken this long to wake up to 
the fact that they could be runaway market leaders with such a machine, it 
would be a shame if they were to lose the lead they've built up, 
particularly among the 'technically minded' users who usually drive these 
trends in the market.

(Oh the DUH! was just for previous replies who hadn't even read my post but 
felt the need to point out the (bleedin) obvious to me ;-)
(too many brackets, that's just the PASCAL in my soul)
rgds...
Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bruce Stewart"  wrote in message 
news:RGmwi.6944$cw7.4634@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.
>
> Bruce S

Hi Bruce..
I wish we had cable out here in the boonies...
Yep, advocating the use of Linux in the box puts you firmly at the head of 
the techno brigade, a whole order of magnitude beyond the average Topfield 
user ;-)
Do you have a liquid cooled PSU too?
OK, It can also be achieved to a greater or lesser degree by the slightly 
less technically adept with a Windaz peecee (As I do) but the thrust of my 
comments were towards mass-market  availability, where people want a 'black 
box' to match the amp that'll do it all from the arm chair (Without a 
buzzing lashup box hidden behind the TV)..
My xtal balls seem to be tingling to say it won't be long now before the 
manufacturers wake up to this need.

Djimbo..



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> ships with Satellite tuners.

I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When 
you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any 
possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they 
will then preinstall for you.

A DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-T tuners (which is what I ordered) was 
more expensive than a DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-S tuners, though, so 
you're probably right in that the "default" option seems to be 2×DVB-S 
tuners.

You can also choose whether you want your DM 7025 with or without a 
preinstalled HDD.

For me, one of the main reasons for getting a DM 7025 was its capability 
of recording directly to network shares. I didn't want a "local" HDD in 
the actual set-top box at all and so didn't order one. Instead, I have a 
separate Linux server (actually, just an old clunky PC that couldn't 
possibly handle today's desktop apps) sitting in a closet at the other 
end of the house. The recordings go there over the home network. One of 
the advantages of this setup is that the DM 7025 - missing a local HDD 
or any other moving parts - is completely silent when recording or 
playing back the recordings.

A stand-alone NAS device or a Windows PC would have done just as well 
for remote storage. The Dreambox doesn't really care as long as it can 
access the remote HDD via a shared folder. But I already had that Linux 
server running there in the closet as it is used for other tasks, too - 
it is acting as a firewall for the entire home network, and as a 
personal web server for the family - so I figured it could be used for 
this purpose just as well.

> I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.

See above.

> When I've priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which
> is significnatly more than the Topfield and more than I'd like to
> spend.

The DM 7025 is pretty expensive, that's true.

> Also how does the level of support for user developed software
> for the Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

 - The actual PVR software (Enigma 2) that the remote control
   wielding user sees on his tv screen is open source and under
   the GPL licence; you can hack the thing to your heart's
   content.

 - You can program your plugins in Python. (Also in C or C++
   or whatever, if you want to, but even most of the original
   user interface logic is written in Python.)

 - The device is running Linux behind the curtains - with
   everything that that entails. For example, you can log in
   to your DM 7025 over the network via telnet/ssh and run
   Linux commands/programs. The default firmware image comes
   with a Busybox shell environment, telnet and ssh servers,
   and the "joe" text editor if you want to examine the
   underbelly of the machine. There's even a Samba server
   running by default. (If you have a local HDD installed,
   it's sort of like a NAS at the same time.) You can compile
   and run Linux programs/services that run in the background
   and that can be totally unrelated to the set-top box
   functionality (such as IRC or IM clients, the "screen"
   terminal multiplexer, etc.) I've even had an old-fashioned
   "dumb" serial terminal connected to the serial port,
   providing an access to the command prompt locally...
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc.jpg> ...but
   you can also do that on the tv screen, with a USB or an
   IR keyboard:
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc-2.jpg>. So
   it's pretty flexible.

 - There is a web interface for viewing the EPG and setting
   up timers over the network - even when you're physically
   far away from the box.

 - There are unofficial customized software releases from
   various 3rd parties (with preinstalled plugins and
   enhancements, etc.)

 - There's even an alternative PVR software (Neutrino) that
   fully replaces the original one (Enigma 2), if you'd rather
   use something different.

 - There is semi-shady cardsharing software that allows
   sharing smartcards with the other Dreamboxes in the
   house. (The other Dreamboxes do not need to be the
   same model.)

 - The DM 7025 can record an unspecified number of services
   (programmes) simultaneously as long as they're located
   within at most two multiplexes at any given time. For
   example, recording four or five programmes simultaneously
   is no biggie. You can also record the same channel in
   multiple files simultaneously which may come handy if
   you're making use of the built-in feature that allows
   automatically extending timed EPG recordings in both
   directions by a predefined amount of minutes. (Does the
   DM 7025 / Enigma 2 support "Freeview Playback"? Not yet,
   to my knowledge, but feel free to add the support for
   that - it's open source, after all.)

The user community is less organized than on the Topfield side, though. 
There are many Dreambox forums out there (one of them "offical" and 
maintained by Dream Multimedia themselves) but the majority of them seem 
to be German-speaking, or mixed language with English subforums and 
English language threads among the German discussions.

There are also sites which collect and offer plugins and unofficial 
firmware images for download (so that you don't have to hunt them down 
from the authors' websites or random forum threads), but currently 
nothing as nice or organized as some of the main TAP sites for the 
Topfield models.

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:0ECwi.207538$ji2.105484@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> > I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> > ships with Satellite tuners.
>
> I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When
> you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any
> possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they
> will then preinstall for you.
> <snip>
>..........................
> </snip>
> -- 
> znark
>

Food for thought.... Thanks for the feedback..... I like the idea of not
running an HDD in the box.  Presumably this avoids at least some of the
issues around dissipation of heat when the box is running?
Two further questions:-
1.  If I purchase a Dreambox wihtout HDD and with 2 DVB-T tuners.  How much
is it liekyl to se me back?
2.  I don't have Linux in my skill set so can I get by setting up and using
the box with a remote HDD without it?
--
David Wainwright
Web:  http://www.brsince78.co.uk
Email: david@-deletethisbit-brsince78.co.uk

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

Bruce Stewart  wrote:

> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.

For anyone thinking about this approach, there's an article in the
curren issue of Personal Computer World.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"PC Paul"  wrote in message 
news:oYlwi.6929$cw7.5296@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> djimbo wrote:
>>
>> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
>> recorders don't yet exist -
>> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
>>
>
> I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
> reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...
>
> *I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
> knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to the 
> manufacturers for some reason.

Yes I know, I feel the same... why don't these people make what WE want not 
what they want to make?
My guess though is that as soon as the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Philippinoes 
perceive a mass market appeal for these things, they will happen.
Particularly as they're ALWAYS on the lookout for the next 'boom' object to 
flood the market with, and to bouy up the flagging brown goods market 
generaly.
Have a look how many different brands of VHS to DVD machines the box 
shifters now have available.
When it happens it will be overnight and you're choice will be from Humax to 
Sony in price range with all the twiddly in between bits
like Sanyo & LuckyGoldstar.
I'm quite surprised the Topfield people have taken this long to wake up to 
the fact that they could be runaway market leaders with such a machine, it 
would be a shame if they were to lose the lead they've built up, 
particularly among the 'technically minded' users who usually drive these 
trends in the market.

(Oh the DUH! was just for previous replies who hadn't even read my post but 
felt the need to point out the (bleedin) obvious to me ;-)
(too many brackets, that's just the PASCAL in my soul)
rgds...
Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bruce Stewart"  wrote in message 
news:RGmwi.6944$cw7.4634@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.
>
> Bruce S

Hi Bruce..
I wish we had cable out here in the boonies...
Yep, advocating the use of Linux in the box puts you firmly at the head of 
the techno brigade, a whole order of magnitude beyond the average Topfield 
user ;-)
Do you have a liquid cooled PSU too?
OK, It can also be achieved to a greater or lesser degree by the slightly 
less technically adept with a Windaz peecee (As I do) but the thrust of my 
comments were towards mass-market  availability, where people want a 'black 
box' to match the amp that'll do it all from the arm chair (Without a 
buzzing lashup box hidden behind the TV)..
My xtal balls seem to be tingling to say it won't be long now before the 
manufacturers wake up to this need.

Djimbo..



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> ships with Satellite tuners.

I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When 
you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any 
possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they 
will then preinstall for you.

A DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-T tuners (which is what I ordered) was 
more expensive than a DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-S tuners, though, so 
you're probably right in that the "default" option seems to be 2×DVB-S 
tuners.

You can also choose whether you want your DM 7025 with or without a 
preinstalled HDD.

For me, one of the main reasons for getting a DM 7025 was its capability 
of recording directly to network shares. I didn't want a "local" HDD in 
the actual set-top box at all and so didn't order one. Instead, I have a 
separate Linux server (actually, just an old clunky PC that couldn't 
possibly handle today's desktop apps) sitting in a closet at the other 
end of the house. The recordings go there over the home network. One of 
the advantages of this setup is that the DM 7025 - missing a local HDD 
or any other moving parts - is completely silent when recording or 
playing back the recordings.

A stand-alone NAS device or a Windows PC would have done just as well 
for remote storage. The Dreambox doesn't really care as long as it can 
access the remote HDD via a shared folder. But I already had that Linux 
server running there in the closet as it is used for other tasks, too - 
it is acting as a firewall for the entire home network, and as a 
personal web server for the family - so I figured it could be used for 
this purpose just as well.

> I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.

See above.

> When I've priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which
> is significnatly more than the Topfield and more than I'd like to
> spend.

The DM 7025 is pretty expensive, that's true.

> Also how does the level of support for user developed software
> for the Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

 - The actual PVR software (Enigma 2) that the remote control
   wielding user sees on his tv screen is open source and under
   the GPL licence; you can hack the thing to your heart's
   content.

 - You can program your plugins in Python. (Also in C or C++
   or whatever, if you want to, but even most of the original
   user interface logic is written in Python.)

 - The device is running Linux behind the curtains - with
   everything that that entails. For example, you can log in
   to your DM 7025 over the network via telnet/ssh and run
   Linux commands/programs. The default firmware image comes
   with a Busybox shell environment, telnet and ssh servers,
   and the "joe" text editor if you want to examine the
   underbelly of the machine. There's even a Samba server
   running by default. (If you have a local HDD installed,
   it's sort of like a NAS at the same time.) You can compile
   and run Linux programs/services that run in the background
   and that can be totally unrelated to the set-top box
   functionality (such as IRC or IM clients, the "screen"
   terminal multiplexer, etc.) I've even had an old-fashioned
   "dumb" serial terminal connected to the serial port,
   providing an access to the command prompt locally...
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc.jpg> ...but
   you can also do that on the tv screen, with a USB or an
   IR keyboard:
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc-2.jpg>. So
   it's pretty flexible.

 - There is a web interface for viewing the EPG and setting
   up timers over the network - even when you're physically
   far away from the box.

 - There are unofficial customized software releases from
   various 3rd parties (with preinstalled plugins and
   enhancements, etc.)

 - There's even an alternative PVR software (Neutrino) that
   fully replaces the original one (Enigma 2), if you'd rather
   use something different.

 - There is semi-shady cardsharing software that allows
   sharing smartcards with the other Dreamboxes in the
   house. (The other Dreamboxes do not need to be the
   same model.)

 - The DM 7025 can record an unspecified number of services
   (programmes) simultaneously as long as they're located
   within at most two multiplexes at any given time. For
   example, recording four or five programmes simultaneously
   is no biggie. You can also record the same channel in
   multiple files simultaneously which may come handy if
   you're making use of the built-in feature that allows
   automatically extending timed EPG recordings in both
   directions by a predefined amount of minutes. (Does the
   DM 7025 / Enigma 2 support "Freeview Playback"? Not yet,
   to my knowledge, but feel free to add the support for
   that - it's open source, after all.)

The user community is less organized than on the Topfield side, though. 
There are many Dreambox forums out there (one of them "offical" and 
maintained by Dream Multimedia themselves) but the majority of them seem 
to be German-speaking, or mixed language with English subforums and 
English language threads among the German discussions.

There are also sites which collect and offer plugins and unofficial 
firmware images for download (so that you don't have to hunt them down 
from the authors' websites or random forum threads), but currently 
nothing as nice or organized as some of the main TAP sites for the 
Topfield models.

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:0ECwi.207538$ji2.105484@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> > I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> > ships with Satellite tuners.
>
> I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When
> you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any
> possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they
> will then preinstall for you.
> <snip>
>..........................
> </snip>
> -- 
> znark
>

Food for thought.... Thanks for the feedback..... I like the idea of not
running an HDD in the box.  Presumably this avoids at least some of the
issues around dissipation of heat when the box is running?
Two further questions:-
1.  If I purchase a Dreambox wihtout HDD and with 2 DVB-T tuners.  How much
is it liekyl to se me back?
2.  I don't have Linux in my skill set so can I get by setting up and using
the box with a remote HDD without it?
--
David Wainwright
Web:  http://www.brsince78.co.uk
Email: david@-deletethisbit-brsince78.co.uk

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

FWIW I looked at both and spoke to friends who have the Topfield before 
opting for the Humax.  Both seem to me good machines.  But I chose on 
objective criteria of what *we* wanted from a PVR.

-- 
Robin

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:17:47 GMT, "Robin"

wrote:

>I am sure the OP finds that very informative.  While you are about it 
>could you also explain to him why some of its owners feel the need to be 
>quite so evangelical in case it is contagious?  (I would now rather 
>invite the Mormons in than most Toppy owners.)

Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
experience.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

> Because I have had the displeasure of using a Humax, and the pleasure
> of using my Toppy with MyStuff installed. Pardon me for speaking from
> experience.

OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for 
example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
factors which may interest him (including price).

Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but 
not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

-- 
Robin

Andrew  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> 
> >Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
> >looking for the best deals.
> 
> I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
> Topfield.

Might nver happen.

Yes, as a Humax owner, I agree that the Topfield needs researching. But
the final decision depends on a number of factors that people can judge
differently.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Robin 
wrote:

> OK but I am not clear how that helps the OP.  I think it help if, for
> example, you could elaborate on what it was about the PVR9200T that 
> displeased you so Norman could weigh it in the balance against other 
> factors which may interest him (including price).

As a Humax user, who likes it in general, the fact that the EPG is not
saved to disk, and consequently taks fifteen minutes or so to load, is
an issue. My method of scheduling items to record means that this isn't
a great problem for me, but some people find it makes it almost
unusable.

> 
> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again
> this month.  I have also seen both on display in John Lewis stores but
> not, I think, with the MyStuff add-on.

I am not sure what the situation is with the Topfield and the EPG out of
the box. It may have the same issue, but this can be dealt with by an
add-on.

And that's the feature of the Topfield that one may either love or
loathe. Its behaviour can be improved a lot in some very interesting
ways by add-ons, but if one doesn't want to bother with add-ons then I
don't know why anone would prefer it to the Humax.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"Robin"  
wrote in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs again 
> this month.

Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they are 
taken a bit too seriously.
I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and 
everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when they 
reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled up 
more on the in-bench.
I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day to day 
repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their quality/reliability and leave 
users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.

My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass market 
appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the ability to 
archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly regurgitating 
the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't address this argument, I 
think any reasonable person sees that the hard drive doesn't exist to cope 
with everything you're ever going to want to store and even if it did it's 
failure (a not uncommon eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would 
prove catastrophic.
At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is PVR/DVD-recorder 
which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.

Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
recorders don't yet exist -
DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.

Just my 2p
    Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

djimbo wrote:
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
> recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 

I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...

*I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to 
the manufacturers for some reason.

djimbo wrote:

> 
> "Robin"
>  wrote
> in message news:Ch_vi.6138$cw7.4508@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> 
>> Norman: you probably already know "Which?" have reported on PVRs
>> again this month.
> 
> Ok I haven't seen this particular report, but I feel sometimes they
> are taken a bit too seriously.
> I can't speak for everyone in the brown-goods trade, but I know I, and
> everyone of my acquaintance, lost a lot of faith in these reports when
> they reported the Amstrad video recorder to be top of the pile.
> As repairers we considered them 'Cheap & Cheerful and found they piled
> up more on the in-bench.
> I would prefer to take an opinion from someone concerned with the day
> to day repairing of Humax/Toppfield PVRs as to their
> quality/reliability and leave
> users to debate the very subjective issue of  their functionality.
> 
> My own belief, as previously stated, is neither will achieve mass
> market appeal until their basic function can match a VCR, that is the
> ability to archive material internally to removable media. Pointlessly
> regurgitating the mantra that they have BIG hard drives doesn't
> address this argument, I think any reasonable person sees that the
> hard drive doesn't exist to cope with everything you're ever going to
> want to store and even if it did it's failure (a not uncommon
> eventuality for any electro-mechanical device) would prove
> catastrophic. At the moment the two box 'cludge' is favourite that is
> PVR/DVD-recorder which is a bit like TV/DVB box, one box too many.
> 
> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in
> DVD recorders don't yet exist -
> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
> 
> Just my 2p
>     Djimbo.
> 
> 
> 

<advocacy>
If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
</advocacy>
I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
programmes to DVD.

Bruce S
-- 
Replace the by by blueyonder.

"Ian"  wrote in message
news:13bs4gh2h56drcb@corp.supernews.com...
> lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> > I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> It's certainly possible with a Topfield
> Cheers
> Ian.
>

Ah yes but only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from my TV for
USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box (NSLU?) to bridge the gap
but I'm without the technical knowledge, or the time to acquire the
technical knowlege, to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:

> Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........

The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record 
directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>

Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have 
one in mine.

* * *

Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some 
technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is 
not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions 
(in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you 
some general idea of the level of complexity):

 <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
nukset_verkkojakoon/>

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:bBowi.207259$UX5.28339@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> David at brsince78 dot co dot uk wrote:
>
> > Ah yes but [the Topfield can transfer the recordings to a
> > PC] only via a USB connection....... My PC is too far from
> > my TV for USB.  I've read that you can use some kind of box
> > (NSLU?) to bridge the gap but I'm without the technical
> > knowledge, or the time to acquire the technical knowlege,
> > to get this to work.  A simple Ethernet card in the back
> > of the Topfield and I would buy one tomorrow. ........
>
> The Dreambox DM 7025 has a 10/100Mbps Ethernet connector and can record
> directly to Windows(/SMB) or NFS network shares:
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/pictu
> re_gallery/case/backside.jpg>
>
> Internal HDD is optional - not necessarily required at all. I don't have
> one in mine.
>
> * * *
>
> Configuring the DM 7025 to record to network shares requires some
> technical knowledge, though, as that kind of "advanced" configuration is
> not officially supported by the manufacturer. Here are the instructions
> (in Finnish, which probably does not help you much, but might give you
> some general idea of the level of complexity):
>
>  <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/tallen
> nukset_verkkojakoon/>
>
> -- 
> znark
>

I've researched the Dreambox.  From what I can see it ships with Satellite
tuners.  I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.  When I've
priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which is significnatly more
than the Topfield and more than I'd like to spend.

Also how does the level of support for user developed software for the
Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

Bruce Stewart  wrote:

> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.

For anyone thinking about this approach, there's an article in the
curren issue of Personal Computer World.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

"PC Paul"  wrote in message 
news:oYlwi.6929$cw7.5296@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> djimbo wrote:
>>
>> Oh and if anyone else wants to tell me twin tuner PVRs with built in DVD 
>> recorders don't yet exist -
>> DUH!    Hold on a bit, they will.
>>
>
> I've been holding on for four years now. Will they be along soon, do you 
> reckon? Hardly a Duh moment...
>
> *I* know and *you* know and seemingly *every other potential customer* 
> knows that's what we want. But it doesn't seem to have got through to the 
> manufacturers for some reason.

Yes I know, I feel the same... why don't these people make what WE want not 
what they want to make?
My guess though is that as soon as the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Philippinoes 
perceive a mass market appeal for these things, they will happen.
Particularly as they're ALWAYS on the lookout for the next 'boom' object to 
flood the market with, and to bouy up the flagging brown goods market 
generaly.
Have a look how many different brands of VHS to DVD machines the box 
shifters now have available.
When it happens it will be overnight and you're choice will be from Humax to 
Sony in price range with all the twiddly in between bits
like Sanyo & LuckyGoldstar.
I'm quite surprised the Topfield people have taken this long to wake up to 
the fact that they could be runaway market leaders with such a machine, it 
would be a shame if they were to lose the lead they've built up, 
particularly among the 'technically minded' users who usually drive these 
trends in the market.

(Oh the DUH! was just for previous replies who hadn't even read my post but 
felt the need to point out the (bleedin) obvious to me ;-)
(too many brackets, that's just the PASCAL in my soul)
rgds...
Djimbo. 



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bruce Stewart"  wrote in message 
news:RGmwi.6944$cw7.4634@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> <advocacy>
> If want one now, you can build it using a reasonable spec PC and DVB-S/T
> cards and a Linux distro and MythTV.
> </advocacy>
> I have a PC running KnoppMyth with 2 DVB-T cards and a PVR-350 to
> capture the output from a Cable STB and I'm able to burn recorded
> programmes to DVD.
>
> Bruce S

Hi Bruce..
I wish we had cable out here in the boonies...
Yep, advocating the use of Linux in the box puts you firmly at the head of 
the techno brigade, a whole order of magnitude beyond the average Topfield 
user ;-)
Do you have a liquid cooled PSU too?
OK, It can also be achieved to a greater or lesser degree by the slightly 
less technically adept with a Windaz peecee (As I do) but the thrust of my 
comments were towards mass-market  availability, where people want a 'black 
box' to match the amp that'll do it all from the arm chair (Without a 
buzzing lashup box hidden behind the TV)..
My xtal balls seem to be tingling to say it won't be long now before the 
manufacturers wake up to this need.

Djimbo..



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> ships with Satellite tuners.

I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When 
you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any 
possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they 
will then preinstall for you.

A DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-T tuners (which is what I ordered) was 
more expensive than a DM 7025 equipped with two DVB-S tuners, though, so 
you're probably right in that the "default" option seems to be 2×DVB-S 
tuners.

You can also choose whether you want your DM 7025 with or without a 
preinstalled HDD.

For me, one of the main reasons for getting a DM 7025 was its capability 
of recording directly to network shares. I didn't want a "local" HDD in 
the actual set-top box at all and so didn't order one. Instead, I have a 
separate Linux server (actually, just an old clunky PC that couldn't 
possibly handle today's desktop apps) sitting in a closet at the other 
end of the house. The recordings go there over the home network. One of 
the advantages of this setup is that the DM 7025 - missing a local HDD 
or any other moving parts - is completely silent when recording or 
playing back the recordings.

A stand-alone NAS device or a Windows PC would have done just as well 
for remote storage. The Dreambox doesn't really care as long as it can 
access the remote HDD via a shared folder. But I already had that Linux 
server running there in the closet as it is used for other tasks, too - 
it is acting as a firewall for the entire home network, and as a 
personal web server for the family - so I figured it could be used for 
this purpose just as well.

> I would need to purchase 2 DVB-T tuners, a hard drive.

See above.

> When I've priced this up it comes to in excess of £400 which
> is significnatly more than the Topfield and more than I'd like to
> spend.

The DM 7025 is pretty expensive, that's true.

> Also how does the level of support for user developed software
> for the Topfield and the Dreambox compare?

 - The actual PVR software (Enigma 2) that the remote control
   wielding user sees on his tv screen is open source and under
   the GPL licence; you can hack the thing to your heart's
   content.

 - You can program your plugins in Python. (Also in C or C++
   or whatever, if you want to, but even most of the original
   user interface logic is written in Python.)

 - The device is running Linux behind the curtains - with
   everything that that entails. For example, you can log in
   to your DM 7025 over the network via telnet/ssh and run
   Linux commands/programs. The default firmware image comes
   with a Busybox shell environment, telnet and ssh servers,
   and the "joe" text editor if you want to examine the
   underbelly of the machine. There's even a Samba server
   running by default. (If you have a local HDD installed,
   it's sort of like a NAS at the same time.) You can compile
   and run Linux programs/services that run in the background
   and that can be totally unrelated to the set-top box
   functionality (such as IRC or IM clients, the "screen"
   terminal multiplexer, etc.) I've even had an old-fashioned
   "dumb" serial terminal connected to the serial port,
   providing an access to the command prompt locally...
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc.jpg> ...but
   you can also do that on the tv screen, with a USB or an
   IR keyboard:
   <http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox-irc-2.jpg>. So
   it's pretty flexible.

 - There is a web interface for viewing the EPG and setting
   up timers over the network - even when you're physically
   far away from the box.

 - There are unofficial customized software releases from
   various 3rd parties (with preinstalled plugins and
   enhancements, etc.)

 - There's even an alternative PVR software (Neutrino) that
   fully replaces the original one (Enigma 2), if you'd rather
   use something different.

 - There is semi-shady cardsharing software that allows
   sharing smartcards with the other Dreamboxes in the
   house. (The other Dreamboxes do not need to be the
   same model.)

 - The DM 7025 can record an unspecified number of services
   (programmes) simultaneously as long as they're located
   within at most two multiplexes at any given time. For
   example, recording four or five programmes simultaneously
   is no biggie. You can also record the same channel in
   multiple files simultaneously which may come handy if
   you're making use of the built-in feature that allows
   automatically extending timed EPG recordings in both
   directions by a predefined amount of minutes. (Does the
   DM 7025 / Enigma 2 support "Freeview Playback"? Not yet,
   to my knowledge, but feel free to add the support for
   that - it's open source, after all.)

The user community is less organized than on the Topfield side, though. 
There are many Dreambox forums out there (one of them "offical" and 
maintained by Dream Multimedia themselves) but the majority of them seem 
to be German-speaking, or mixed language with English subforums and 
English language threads among the German discussions.

There are also sites which collect and offer plugins and unofficial 
firmware images for download (so that you don't have to hunt them down 
from the authors' websites or random forum threads), but currently 
nothing as nice or organized as some of the main TAP sites for the 
Topfield models.

-- 
znark

"Jukka Aho"  wrote in message
news:0ECwi.207538$ji2.105484@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
> > I've researched the Dreambox [DM 7025].  From what I can see it
> > ships with Satellite tuners.
>
> I ordered mine from hm-sat.de. Didn't get any sat tuners with it. When
> you place the order in their online shop, they let you choose any
> possible tuner combination (T+T, C+C, S+S, T+S, C+S, T+C) which they
> will then preinstall for you.
> <snip>
>..........................
> </snip>
> -- 
> znark
>

Food for thought.... Thanks for the feedback..... I like the idea of not
running an HDD in the box.  Presumably this avoids at least some of the
issues around dissipation of heat when the box is running?
Two further questions:-
1.  If I purchase a Dreambox wihtout HDD and with 2 DVB-T tuners.  How much
is it liekyl to se me back?
2.  I don't have Linux in my skill set so can I get by setting up and using
the box with a remote HDD without it?
--
David Wainwright
Web:  http://www.brsince78.co.uk
Email: david@-deletethisbit-brsince78.co.uk

wrote in message 
news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>



might help if you told us which one......



-- 
Gareth.

That fly... is your magic wand.
http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:
> I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> 
It's certainly possible with a Topfield
Cheers
Ian.

the dog from that film you saw 
wrote:

>  wrote in message 
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
> >
> 
> 
> 
> might help if you told us which one......

It can certainly be done (on the Humax and Topfield), though it can be
argues that installing a larger hard disk to the PVR might be a better
solution.

The official method of transfer from the Humax has problems (mainly that
it is very slow) but there is a much better way if one is prepared to
open the machine. I should warn you, though, that the latest Humax
machines have a seal that would be destroyed if you opned it, while
older ones do not.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

On 11 Aug, 16:22, "the dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1186845398.337275.310200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I am considering buying a pvr with hard disk, but want to know if it
> > is possible to copy from the hard disk for pemanent storage
>
> might help if you told us which one......
>
> --
> Gareth.
>
> That fly... is your magic wand.http://www.last.fm/user/dsbmusic/

My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Regards, Norman

wrote:

> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done

Humax and Topfield are generally considered the best. I don'y know
anything about the Inverto. You would have to check whether there is
software available for transfer, from that machine as the hard drive may
well not be formatted in a way that a PC can directly recognise.
-- 
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

>
> My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some 
uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But 
I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice from 
http://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php

-- 
Robin

On 12 Aug, 17:20, "Robin"

wrote:
> > My choice right now would be Inverto IDL7000 T, but you may know
> > better. Where would I find the info on how its done
>
> When I was looking last year I was put off by what seemed some
> uncertainty about the ability of this to transfer files to a PC.  But
> I'm sure you'd get better and up-to- date advice fromhttp://www.invertoforum.co.uk/forum/index.php
>
> --
> Robin
Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
looking for the best deals.

Norman

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:40 -0700, lovell28@btinternet.com wrote:

>Further research has turned my opinion towards Humax. I will be
>looking for the best deals.

I would do a lot more research until your opinions turns towards the
Topfield.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
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