-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"abelard"  wrote in message 
news:1b93f5tubqmhbqbebgjrslfadchlf2gkb5@4ax.com...

http://grahnlaw.blogspot.com/2009/05/britain-and-eu-how-to-deform-treaty_31.html

"Conclusion

Under the Lisbon Treaty, limitations of EU powers or opt-outs from internal 
policy areas would be marginally easier from a legal point of view, but are 
they politically viable?

The UK's record as an obstructionist member is solid and the Conservative 
Party promises even more contempt for its European partners and their common 
aims.

The EU member states would be foolish to cringe before a member state 
without loyalty and solidarity.

If even one member state stands up against Britian's irresponsible 
behaviour, the plan to deform the treaty crashes.

David Cameron and William Hague would probably have to call a referendum on 
Britain's EU membership.

The European Union could offer ex-member Britain a privileged partnership."

******

We hear a lot of references to Article 48 no?

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:29:45 -0000, "Aramis Gunton"
 wrote:

>"abelard"  wrote in message 
>news:1b93f5tubqmhbqbebgjrslfadchlf2gkb5@4ax.com...
>
>http://grahnlaw.blogspot.com/2009/05/britain-and-eu-how-to-deform-treaty_31.html
>
>"Conclusion
>
>Under the Lisbon Treaty, limitations of EU powers or opt-outs from internal 
>policy areas would be marginally easier from a legal point of view, but are 
>they politically viable?
>
>The UK's record as an obstructionist member is solid and the Conservative 
>Party promises even more contempt for its European partners and their common 
>aims.
>
>The EU member states would be foolish to cringe before a member state 
>without loyalty and solidarity.
>
>If even one member state stands up against Britian's irresponsible 
>behaviour, the plan to deform the treaty crashes.

that's absolute nonsense...
the eussr is not yet powerful enough do go that route...

they regularly cave in and resort to bribery and appeasement...
    eg ireland and czech....
they also turn a blind eye to constant at two fingers from germany
     and france...
almost all the eu countries are already in breach of the so-called
    stability pact...

>David Cameron and William Hague would probably have to call a referendum on 
>Britain's EU membership.
>
>The European Union could offer ex-member Britain a privileged partnership."
>
>******
>
>We hear a lot of references to Article 48 no? 

save my work and tell me what that is...

regards

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"abelard"  wrote in message 
news:tic3f51qc1g43ajl36d1j4o0iba5f1ij7o@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:29:45 -0000, "Aramis Gunton"
>  wrote:
>
>>"abelard"  wrote in message
>>news:1b93f5tubqmhbqbebgjrslfadchlf2gkb5@4ax.com...
>>
>>http://grahnlaw.blogspot.com/2009/05/britain-and-eu-how-to-deform-treaty_31.html
>>
>>"Conclusion
>>
>>Under the Lisbon Treaty, limitations of EU powers or opt-outs from 
>>internal
>>policy areas would be marginally easier from a legal point of view, but 
>>are
>>they politically viable?
>>
>>The UK's record as an obstructionist member is solid and the Conservative
>>Party promises even more contempt for its European partners and their 
>>common
>>aims.
>>
>>The EU member states would be foolish to cringe before a member state
>>without loyalty and solidarity.
>>
>>If even one member state stands up against Britian's irresponsible
>>behaviour, the plan to deform the treaty crashes.
>
> that's absolute nonsense...

Grahn is notoriously anti-British. An emotional screecher. It must be hell 
to deal with him on a professional basis.

> the eussr is not yet powerful enough do go that route...
>
> they regularly cave in and resort to bribery and appeasement...
>    eg ireland and czech....
> they also turn a blind eye to constant at two fingers from germany
>     and france...
> almost all the eu countries are already in breach of the so-called
>    stability pact...
>
>>David Cameron and William Hague would probably have to call a referendum 
>>on
>>Britain's EU membership.
>>
>>The European Union could offer ex-member Britain a privileged 
>>partnership."
>>
>>******
>>
>>We hear a lot of references to Article 48 no?

Self-amending or ratchet clause.

It allows the European Council to bully dissenting member states into 
approving changes to the Treaties without referendum.

>
> save my work and tell me what that is...
>
> regards
>
> -- 
> web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
> energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year 
> past
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
>  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
>  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
>                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:13:19 -0000, "DVH"  wrote:

>
>"abelard"  wrote in message 
>news:tic3f51qc1g43ajl36d1j4o0iba5f1ij7o@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:29:45 -0000, "Aramis Gunton"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>"abelard"  wrote in message
>>>news:1b93f5tubqmhbqbebgjrslfadchlf2gkb5@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>http://grahnlaw.blogspot.com/2009/05/britain-and-eu-how-to-deform-treaty_31.html
>>>
>>>"Conclusion
>>>
>>>Under the Lisbon Treaty, limitations of EU powers or opt-outs from 
>>>internal
>>>policy areas would be marginally easier from a legal point of view, but 
>>>are
>>>they politically viable?
>>>
>>>The UK's record as an obstructionist member is solid and the Conservative
>>>Party promises even more contempt for its European partners and their 
>>>common
>>>aims.
>>>
>>>The EU member states would be foolish to cringe before a member state
>>>without loyalty and solidarity.
>>>
>>>If even one member state stands up against Britian's irresponsible
>>>behaviour, the plan to deform the treaty crashes.
>>
>> that's absolute nonsense...
>
>Grahn is notoriously anti-British. An emotional screecher. It must be hell 
>to deal with him on a professional basis.

ok

>> the eussr is not yet powerful enough do go that route...
>>
>> they regularly cave in and resort to bribery and appeasement...
>>    eg ireland and czech....
>> they also turn a blind eye to constant at two fingers from germany
>>     and france...
>> almost all the eu countries are already in breach of the so-called
>>    stability pact...
>>
>>>David Cameron and William Hague would probably have to call a referendum 
>>>on
>>>Britain's EU membership.
>>>
>>>The European Union could offer ex-member Britain a privileged 
>>>partnership."
>>>
>>>******
>>>
>>>We hear a lot of references to Article 48 no?
>
>Self-amending or ratchet clause.
>
>It allows the European Council to bully dissenting member states into 
>approving changes to the Treaties without referendum.

thanx...looks like cameron is targeting it....
further, i doubt cameron is nearly so vulnerable to bribery
    and threats as ireland and czech

regards

>> save my work and tell me what that is...

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"abelard"  wrote in message 
news:kef3f5t5o6njr6bts7th8pujtsgu6cc8b9@4ax.com...

>>>>We hear a lot of references to Article 48 no?
>>
>>Self-amending or ratchet clause.
>>
>>It allows the European Council to bully dissenting member states into
>>approving changes to the Treaties without referendum.
>
> thanx...looks like cameron is targeting it....
> further, i doubt cameron is nearly so vulnerable to bribery
>    and threats as ireland and czech

But were not the bribery and threats *only* required prior to the 
ratification.

The 'opt outs' such as they are were surely just sweeteners to ensure the 
medicine, post ratification, goes down smoothly.

As Cameron states in respect of the 'difficulties', he will need the 
agreement of *all* 27 members.

The treaty juggernaut is now in place!!!!

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:07:06 -0000, "Aramis Gunton"
 wrote:

>"abelard"  wrote in message 
>news:kef3f5t5o6njr6bts7th8pujtsgu6cc8b9@4ax.com...
>
>>>>>We hear a lot of references to Article 48 no?
>>>
>>>Self-amending or ratchet clause.
>>>
>>>It allows the European Council to bully dissenting member states into
>>>approving changes to the Treaties without referendum.
>>
>> thanx...looks like cameron is targeting it....
>> further, i doubt cameron is nearly so vulnerable to bribery
>>    and threats as ireland and czech
>
>But were not the bribery and threats *only* required prior to the 
>ratification.
>
>The 'opt outs' such as they are were surely just sweeteners to ensure the 
>medicine, post ratification, goes down smoothly.
>
>As Cameron states in respect of the 'difficulties', he will need the 
>agreement of *all* 27 members.

sane operators don't start 'negotiations' with open threats

>The treaty juggernaut is now in place!!!! 

and as stated...i believe that juggernaut is made of tissue paper...
so far

regards

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We should have a remodelled ACMD along the lines of the Bank of
England, which has responsibility for making these decisions outside
of government, just as happened with interest rates."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gy1p8kknVoC6DpqzdiZxcBv2gqNw
"The government's drug advisory body is "fatally flawed" and should be
rebuilt from scratch along the lines of the Bank of England, Professor
David Nutt has declared.

Scientists advising politicians on the dangers of drugs should be as
independent as the Bank of England officials who decide interest
rates, he said."


regards

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

abelard wrote:
> 
> "We should have a remodelled ACMD along the lines of the Bank of
> England, which has responsibility for making these decisions outside
> of government, just as happened with interest rates."
> 
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gy1p8kknVoC6DpqzdiZxcBv2gqNw
> "The government's drug advisory body is "fatally flawed" and should be
> rebuilt from scratch along the lines of the Bank of England, Professor
> David Nutt has declared.
> 
> Scientists advising politicians on the dangers of drugs should be as
> independent as the Bank of England officials who decide interest
> rates, he said."
> 
> 
> regards
> 

Or simply do as Portugal has done.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

-- 
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:41:22 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
 wrote:

>abelard wrote:
>> 
>> "We should have a remodelled ACMD along the lines of the Bank of
>> England, which has responsibility for making these decisions outside
>> of government, just as happened with interest rates."
>> 
>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gy1p8kknVoC6DpqzdiZxcBv2gqNw
>> "The government's drug advisory body is "fatally flawed" and should be
>> rebuilt from scratch along the lines of the Bank of England, Professor
>> David Nutt has declared.
>> 
>> Scientists advising politicians on the dangers of drugs should be as
>> independent as the Bank of England officials who decide interest
>> rates, he said."

>Or simply do as Portugal has done.
>http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

that is a rational government at work (i also reported this
    in early september)

nutt is suggesting something much more radical...a removal of power
    in an area that presently generates irrationalist emotions away 
   from politics to 'science'

regards

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that     []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []    trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

abelard wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:41:22 +0000, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
>  wrote:
> 
>> abelard wrote:
>>> "We should have a remodelled ACMD along the lines of the Bank of
>>> England, which has responsibility for making these decisions outside
>>> of government, just as happened with interest rates."
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gy1p8kknVoC6DpqzdiZxcBv2gqNw
>>> "The government's drug advisory body is "fatally flawed" and should be
>>> rebuilt from scratch along the lines of the Bank of England, Professor
>>> David Nutt has declared.
>>>
>>> Scientists advising politicians on the dangers of drugs should be as
>>> independent as the Bank of England officials who decide interest
>>> rates, he said."
> 
>> Or simply do as Portugal has done.
>> http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
> 
> that is a rational government at work (i also reported this
>     in early september)
> 
> nutt is suggesting something much more radical...a removal of power
>     in an area that presently generates irrationalist emotions away 
>    from politics to 'science'

I agree.

-- 
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show