The United states was founded by some great orators,
who produced some of the most soaring expressions of
the Human Spirit in history;

      "We hold these Truths to be self-evident,
       that all Men are created equal,
       that they are endowed, by their CREATOR,
       with certain unalienable Rights..."

The fact that these men, in a society which was, and
remains, a majority religious nation, created a secular
state, to ensure that no one religion would, coupled with
the power of the state, dominate, exclude and persecute
other faiths, or non-believer minorities, shows their
absolute sincerity. Their actions matched their rhetoric.

Sadly over time, this propensity for high flown rhetoric
has continued, but the reality does not often match.
Some will say it never did, that the nation which claimed
such equality was from the outset, mired in slavery, but
the aspiration towards the ideal was important, and
after a bloody Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement,
Martin Luther King, and the election of Barack Obama,
the rhetoric has inspired and led the reality.. as statements
of belief should do.


In Australia, a nation of convicts, high flown rhetoric has
never been so popular or prevalent, a few simple nostrums
have sufficed, "A Fair Go for All" is the central one.
And as with every statement of ideals, we fall short, we
have never given the indigenous people of this land a fair go.

In 2009, both these nations seem bombarded with rhetoric
that bears little resemblance to reality, and it may be of some
use to have an outsiders perspective;

Next year the Atheists who claim they have no doctrine, no dogma,
no political focus, will meet for a convention lasting days to discuss
one single concept, "God does not exist."

Well, of course that is rubbish, there is nothing left to say if that is
ALL atheism is.  Atheist rhetoric fills scores of websites, dozens of 
books, hundreds of You-Tube polemics, all of which reveal a much larger,
diverse, militant agenda.  It has three central threads, anti-theism,
propaganda and political activism. And this agenda is largely driven
by the Militant American Atheists, although, as usual, they have a 
couple of British writers as their "chief intellectuals" who provide
a workable polemic.

The reality is that atheism, in decline since the atheist tyrannies
of the 20th Century collapsed in such terrible failure, is attempting
to win a new, young audience of disaffected youth and to use the popular
culture's pagan obsessions, sex, drugs, bad attitude, rock and roll 
idolatry, Vampire and SF fantasy, to link atheism with Bad Boy Status.

For the middle class intellectuals, the young professionals, there
is the usual Masters of Their Own Universe Snake oil.


And the Old Guard remain, pretending none of the Militant Atheist
propaganda exists, or defending it with a claim that it is a justified
reaction against fundamentalist persecution of non-believers.

  BUT, THIS IS THE RHETORIC VERSUS REALITY TEST:

  It is not just that Atheism has never produced something as
  tasty and nutritious as the Bagel,  as soaring as Handel's Messiah,
  as sublime as Rumi's poems, as moving as the pieta, it is not
  just that it has NEVER produced a great and enduring civilisation
  it simply makes NOTHING BUT NOISE:

  WHERE ARE THE ATHEIST HOSPITALS? WHERE ARE THE ATHEIST SCHOOLS?
  WHERE IS THE ATHEIST ACTIONS, WHERE IS THE ATHEIST PRAXIS.

  Hundreds of adolescent stooges chanting scripts written for them
  by Mullah Hitchens or Imam Dawkins, exchanging URLS to youtube rants
  by Pat Condell at al     but NOTHING OF ANY USE TO ANYBODY!!!!

  American religion is certainly a mixed bag, and has far more
  flourishing fundamentalism than in Australia. Aussies are pragmatic,
  Church schools teach Evolution, so atheists cannot pretend that it
  is an Atheist preserve.  Aussies prefer the PRACTICAL SOCIAL ACTION
  of the Salvo's, the Brotherhood of St Lawrence, Uniting Church Social
  Justice, Anglican shelters, St Vinnies, World Vision.. etc to sermons
  in a church..   and you know what...

                  SO DID JESUS!              8^D

I love America, a guiding light to so many nations that lack it's
freedoms, it's democratic rights, but I thank God I live in a country
which looks more to deeds than words, is not so flooded by polemic,
owes less to the Ad Men and Sales Men and PR (Corporate Liar) Wizards,
Spin Doctors, YouTube ranters and Fashion Gurus..

For all their words, the atheists are hollow shells..

     Atheism is EMPTY RHETORIC

Epicureus wrote:
> 
> The United states was founded by some great orators,
> who produced some of the most soaring expressions of
> the Human Spirit in history;
> 
>       "We hold these Truths to be self-evident,
>        that all Men are created equal,
>        that they are endowed, by their CREATOR,
>        with certain unalienable Rights..."
> 
> The fact that these men, in a society which was, and
> remains, a majority religious nation, created a secular
> state, to ensure that no one religion would, coupled with
> the power of the state, dominate, exclude and persecute
> other faiths, or non-believer minorities, shows their
> absolute sincerity. Their actions matched their rhetoric.
> 
> Sadly over time, this propensity for high flown rhetoric
> has continued, but the reality does not often match.
> Some will say it never did, that the nation which claimed
> such equality was from the outset, mired in slavery, but
> the aspiration towards the ideal was important, and
> after a bloody Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement,
> Martin Luther King, and the election of Barack Obama,
> the rhetoric has inspired and led the reality.. as statements
> of belief should do.
> 
> In Australia, a nation of convicts, high flown rhetoric has
> never been so popular or prevalent, a few simple nostrums
> have sufficed, "A Fair Go for All" is the central one.
> And as with every statement of ideals, we fall short, we
> have never given the indigenous people of this land a fair go.
> 
> In 2009, both these nations seem bombarded with rhetoric
> that bears little resemblance to reality, and it may be of some
> use to have an outsiders perspective;
> 
> Next year the Atheists who claim they have no doctrine, no dogma,
> no political focus, will meet for a convention lasting days to discuss
> one single concept, "God does not exist."
> 
> Well, of course that is rubbish, there is nothing left to say if that is
> ALL atheism is.  Atheist rhetoric fills scores of websites, dozens of
> books, hundreds of You-Tube polemics, all of which reveal a much larger,
> diverse, militant agenda.  It has three central threads, anti-theism,
> propaganda and political activism. And this agenda is largely driven
> by the Militant American Atheists, although, as usual, they have a
> couple of British writers as their "chief intellectuals" who provide
> a workable polemic.
> 
> The reality is that atheism, in decline since the atheist tyrannies
> of the 20th Century collapsed in such terrible failure, is attempting
> to win a new, young audience of disaffected youth and to use the popular
> culture's pagan obsessions, sex, drugs, bad attitude, rock and roll
> idolatry, Vampire and SF fantasy, to link atheism with Bad Boy Status.
> 
> For the middle class intellectuals, the young professionals, there
> is the usual Masters of Their Own Universe Snake oil.
> 
> And the Old Guard remain, pretending none of the Militant Atheist
> propaganda exists, or defending it with a claim that it is a justified
> reaction against fundamentalist persecution of non-believers.
> 
>   BUT, THIS IS THE RHETORIC VERSUS REALITY TEST:
> 
>   It is not just that Atheism has never produced something as
>   tasty and nutritious as the Bagel,  as soaring as Handel's Messiah,
>   as sublime as Rumi's poems, as moving as the pieta, it is not
>   just that it has NEVER produced a great and enduring civilisation
>   it simply makes NOTHING BUT NOISE:
> 
>   WHERE ARE THE ATHEIST HOSPITALS? WHERE ARE THE ATHEIST SCHOOLS?
>   WHERE IS THE ATHEIST ACTIONS, WHERE IS THE ATHEIST PRAXIS.
> 
>   Hundreds of adolescent stooges chanting scripts written for them
>   by Mullah Hitchens or Imam Dawkins, exchanging URLS to youtube rants
>   by Pat Condell at al     but NOTHING OF ANY USE TO ANYBODY!!!!
> 
>   American religion is certainly a mixed bag, and has far more
>   flourishing fundamentalism than in Australia. Aussies are pragmatic,
>   Church schools teach Evolution, so atheists cannot pretend that it
>   is an Atheist preserve.  Aussies prefer the PRACTICAL SOCIAL ACTION
>   of the Salvo's, the Brotherhood of St Lawrence, Uniting Church Social
>   Justice, Anglican shelters, St Vinnies, World Vision.. etc to sermons
>   in a church..   and you know what...
> 
>                   SO DID JESUS!              8^D
> 
> I love America, a guiding light to so many nations that lack it's
> freedoms, it's democratic rights, but I thank God I live in a country
> which looks more to deeds than words, is not so flooded by polemic,
> owes less to the Ad Men and Sales Men and PR (Corporate Liar) Wizards,
> Spin Doctors, YouTube ranters and Fashion Gurus..
> 
> For all their words, the atheists are hollow shells..
> 
>      Atheism is EMPTY RHETORIC




"Militant Atheist"

I don't know of any. Could you provide me with a list, even a short one?

JAM

Epicureus wrote:
> 
> 
> The United states was founded by some great orators,
> who produced some of the most soaring expressions of
> the Human Spirit in history;
> 
>      "We hold these Truths to be self-evident,
>       that all Men are created equal,
>       that they are endowed, by their CREATOR,
>       with certain unalienable Rights..."
> 
> The fact that these men, in a society which was, and
> remains, a majority religious nation, created a secular
> state, to ensure that no one religion would, coupled with
> the power of the state, dominate, exclude and persecute
> other faiths, or non-believer minorities, shows their
> absolute sincerity. Their actions matched their rhetoric.
> 
> Sadly over time, this propensity for high flown rhetoric
> has continued, but the reality does not often match.
> Some will say it never did, that the nation which claimed
> such equality was from the outset, mired in slavery, but
> the aspiration towards the ideal was important, and
> after a bloody Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement,
> Martin Luther King, and the election of Barack Obama,
> the rhetoric has inspired and led the reality.. as statements
> of belief should do.
> 
> 
> In Australia, a nation of convicts, high flown rhetoric has
> never been so popular or prevalent, a few simple nostrums
> have sufficed, "A Fair Go for All" is the central one.
> And as with every statement of ideals, we fall short, we
> have never given the indigenous people of this land a fair go.
> 
> In 2009, both these nations seem bombarded with rhetoric
> that bears little resemblance to reality, and it may be of some
> use to have an outsiders perspective;
> 
> Next year the Atheists who claim they have no doctrine, no dogma,
> no political focus, will meet for a convention lasting days to discuss
> one single concept, "God does not exist."
> 
> Well, of course that is rubbish, there is nothing left to say if that is
> ALL atheism is.  Atheist rhetoric fills scores of websites, dozens of 
> books, hundreds of You-Tube polemics, all of which reveal a much larger,
> diverse, militant agenda.  It has three central threads, anti-theism,
> propaganda and political activism. And this agenda is largely driven
> by the Militant American Atheists, although, as usual, they have a 
> couple of British writers as their "chief intellectuals" who provide
> a workable polemic.
> 
> The reality is that atheism, in decline since the atheist tyrannies
> of the 20th Century collapsed in such terrible failure, is attempting
> to win a new, young audience of disaffected youth and to use the popular
> culture's pagan obsessions, sex, drugs, bad attitude, rock and roll 
> idolatry, Vampire and SF fantasy, to link atheism with Bad Boy Status.
> 
> For the middle class intellectuals, the young professionals, there
> is the usual Masters of Their Own Universe Snake oil.
> 
> 
> And the Old Guard remain, pretending none of the Militant Atheist
> propaganda exists, or defending it with a claim that it is a justified
> reaction against fundamentalist persecution of non-believers.
> 
>  BUT, THIS IS THE RHETORIC VERSUS REALITY TEST:
> 
>  It is not just that Atheism has never produced something as
>  tasty and nutritious as the Bagel,  as soaring as Handel's Messiah,
>  as sublime as Rumi's poems, as moving as the pieta, it is not
>  just that it has NEVER produced a great and enduring civilisation
>  it simply makes NOTHING BUT NOISE:
> 
>  WHERE ARE THE ATHEIST HOSPITALS? WHERE ARE THE ATHEIST SCHOOLS?
>  WHERE IS THE ATHEIST ACTIONS, WHERE IS THE ATHEIST PRAXIS.
> 
>  Hundreds of adolescent stooges chanting scripts written for them
>  by Mullah Hitchens or Imam Dawkins, exchanging URLS to youtube rants
>  by Pat Condell at al     but NOTHING OF ANY USE TO ANYBODY!!!!
> 
>  American religion is certainly a mixed bag, and has far more
>  flourishing fundamentalism than in Australia. Aussies are pragmatic,
>  Church schools teach Evolution, so atheists cannot pretend that it
>  is an Atheist preserve.  Aussies prefer the PRACTICAL SOCIAL ACTION
>  of the Salvo's, the Brotherhood of St Lawrence, Uniting Church Social
>  Justice, Anglican shelters, St Vinnies, World Vision.. etc to sermons
>  in a church..   and you know what...
> 
>                  SO DID JESUS!              8^D
> 
> I love America, a guiding light to so many nations that lack it's
> freedoms, it's democratic rights, but I thank God I live in a country
> which looks more to deeds than words, is not so flooded by polemic,
> owes less to the Ad Men and Sales Men and PR (Corporate Liar) Wizards,
> Spin Doctors, YouTube ranters and Fashion Gurus..
> 
> For all their words, the atheists are hollow shells..
> 
>     Atheism is EMPTY RHETORIC
> 
>

I got interested but then it went on for too long, and there was no 
immediate point being made. You must make your point in the first 
sentence and THEN elaborate.

On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:24:26 GMT, Epicureus 
wrote:

*Yawn* 

Nym-shifting to avoid killfiles again. How pathetic.

BTW, you do realize, that as someone who doesn't actively believe in a
deity yourself, you're technically an atheist too, right? Don't bother
replying, I won't bother responding to it except with a derisive yawn.