Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
beyond the Government's control.

It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
consumer debt.

Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.

To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
"no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
 RH
-- 
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

On 15 Oct, 09:37, Robert Henderson 
wrote:
> Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
> attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
> financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
> beyond the Government's control.
>
> It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
> troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
> Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
> if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
> existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
> the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
> packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
> is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
> consumer debt.
>
> Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
> government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
> National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
> the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
> in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
>
> To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
> "no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
> inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
> well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
>  RH
> --
> Robert Henderson
> Blair Scandal website:http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
> Personal website:http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

All our ex-chancellor had to do was to do his job with the regulatory
controls he had put in place through the FSA. He allowed purely for
political reasons a credit bubble to develop which exceeded previous
bubbles like the South Sea bubble and Tulip mania. After all given the
degree of political manipulation of the truth through the control of
the BBC they always thought they would be able to blame somebody else
if problems occurred which of course they have done. They are saving
you from themselves using your money. The government controlled the
banks - after all the government is attempting day to day control over
the detail of peoples lifes - taking over from the individual self
choice on a massive scale but says about the banks we adopted a light
touch regime. Bollocks they adopted a self interest regime. Our great
financial saviour is unfortunately finding that whilst a supine
populace are truly convinced of his greatness some cracks are
developing. Unemployment rising, recession kicking in but of course we
can blame it the credit crunch - semantics for it's all our fault but
a few mock sincere words of condolence will bring the deceased back to
life.
You can see a similar matter over the last few days where in attempt
to introduce 42 day detention they have invented a great terror plot
building in the UK. The manipulation of the truth for political ends
compounded by their stooges in the BBC.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:37:57 +0100, Robert Henderson
 wrote:

>
>
>Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
>attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
>financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
>beyond the Government's control.
>
>It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
>troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
>Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
>if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
>existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
>the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
>packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
>is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
>consumer debt.

there is nothing wrong with the packaging....
there is a lot wrong with idiots who don't check what's in the parcels

>Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
>government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
>National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
>the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
>in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
>
>To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
>"no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
>inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
>well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
> RH

regards....

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2008-10-15 09:37:57 +0100, Robert Henderson 
 said:

> 
> 
> Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
> attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
> financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
> beyond the Government's control.
> 
> It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
> troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
> Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
> if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
> existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
> the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
> packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
> is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
> consumer debt.
> 
> Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
> government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
> National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
> the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
> in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
> 
> To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
> "no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
> inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
> well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
>  RH

The key phrase here is "before the Thatcher's Big Bang" (sic). Oddly 
Rab has hit the nail right on the head, but hasn't realised it. All of 
our present woes go back to the time of The Mad Woman. She sold this 
country a dream of a place where no one had to make anything, where 
workers didn't need skills - a "service economy" based on trading in 
debt. The "Big Bang"allowed such trading to occur instantaneously - 
none of this messy business of handing over bits of paper. Brown's (and 
Blair's and Major's) fault is that they bought into this nightmare in 
the making.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:47:02 +0100, Andrew 
wrote:

>On 2008-10-15 09:37:57 +0100, Robert Henderson 
> said:
>
>> 
>> 
>> Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
>> attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
>> financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
>> beyond the Government's control.
>> 
>> It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
>> troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
>> Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
>> if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
>> existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
>> the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
>> packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
>> is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
>> consumer debt.
>> 
>> Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
>> government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
>> National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
>> the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
>> in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
>> 
>> To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
>> "no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
>> inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
>> well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
>>  RH
>
>The key phrase here is "before the Thatcher's Big Bang" (sic). Oddly 
>Rab has hit the nail right on the head, but hasn't realised it. All of 
>our present woes go back to the time of The Mad Woman. She sold this 
>country a dream of a place where no one had to make anything, where 
>workers didn't need skills - a "service economy" based on trading in 
>debt. The "Big Bang"allowed such trading to occur instantaneously - 
>none of this messy business of handing over bits of paper. Brown's (and 
>Blair's and Major's) fault is that they bought into this nightmare in 
>the making.

Yes and yes. Rab and the above are 100% correct. To be boring I did
say it at the time of Thatch. The destruction of manufacturing
industry (West Mids is a virtual bomb site now) was a mega
catastrophe. I couldn't believe it was happening but there was nothing
the individual could do. It was destruction by lack of investment on a
huge scale. RE-investment would have been the savior and the use of
new technologies. We had many skilled people who were just thrown on
the scrap heap because they were over 40.  

I "served" a real apprenticeship in the 70's and it took 5 years of
graft. After that I studied for 2 science degrees. Now we have the
pathetic "Modern apprenticeships" a mere twinking of time by
comparison. No real teaching and learning-by-doing in-depth any more.
Ok the result is people who can do what's required - until something
odd happens - and then what!  And this is only in engineering. But
it's the same probably in *your* field too.

I took a look the other day at the web site of one of my old colleges.
It was an excellent place (no credit to me - it was them). They ran
engineering courses where everything from punctuality to damn harm
work was rewarded with something that mattered  to us: good marks.
None this tosh of "centres of excellence" and give 'em an A level for
turning up crap. I'm not blaming the student btw - but the governments
for the gross dereliction of duty and destruction of Britain. Anyway,
as I said this former college... it now features "golf centres of
excellence" and has it's own creche!!!!!!!

Brown is currently hiding behind a straw wall labeled GLOBAL. Of
course there is a world-wide problem - but our is far far worse
because of the reason the posters above describe. It is pathetic to
see that his public rating has gone UP as a result of doing the damn
obvious when all is so dire. Have people in Britain now got such short
memories and no powers of reasoning left?

Andrew wrote:
> On 2008-10-15 09:37:57 +0100, Robert Henderson 
>  said:
> 
>>
>>
>> Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
>> attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
>> financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
>> beyond the Government's control.
>>
>> It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
>> troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
>> Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
>> if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
>> existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
>> the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
>> packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
>> is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
>> consumer debt.
>>
>> Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
>> government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
>> National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
>> the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
>> in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
>>
>> To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
>> "no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
>> inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
>> well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
>>  RH
> 
> The key phrase here is "before the Thatcher's Big Bang" (sic). Oddly Rab 
> has hit the nail right on the head, but hasn't realised it. All of our 
> present woes go back to the time of The Mad Woman. She sold this country 
> a dream of a place where no one had to make anything, where workers 
> didn't need skills - a "service economy" based on trading in debt. The 
> "Big Bang"allowed such trading to occur instantaneously - none of this 
> messy business of handing over bits of paper. Brown's (and Blair's and 
> Major's) fault is that they bought into this nightmare in the making.
> 

'The Mad Woman' has indeed much to answer for. However, I think you will 
find that RH is one of her biggest critics. Damaging and disastrous as 
she undoubtedly was, that does not mitigate the responsibility that the 
Blair/Brown combo have for their appalling mismanagement in recent times.

On 2008-10-21 09:01:47 +0100, Farmer Giles  said:

> Andrew wrote:
>> On 2008-10-15 09:37:57 +0100, Robert Henderson 
>>  said:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
>>> attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
>>> financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
>>> beyond the Government's control.
>>> 
>>> It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
>>> troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
>>> Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
>>> if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
>>> existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
>>> the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
>>> packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
>>> is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
>>> consumer debt.
>>> 
>>> Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
>>> government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
>>> National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
>>> the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
>>> in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
>>> 
>>> To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
>>> "no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
>>> inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
>>> well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
>>>  RH
>> 
>> The key phrase here is "before the Thatcher's Big Bang" (sic). Oddly 
>> Rab has hit the nail right on the head, but hasn't realised it. All of 
>> our present woes go back to the time of The Mad Woman. She sold this 
>> country a dream of a place where no one had to make anything, where 
>> workers didn't need skills - a "service economy" based on trading in 
>> debt. The "Big Bang"allowed such trading to occur instantaneously - 
>> none of this messy business of handing over bits of paper. Brown's (and 
>> Blair's and Major's) fault is that they bought into this nightmare in 
>> the making.
>> 
> 
> 'The Mad Woman' has indeed much to answer for. However, I think you 
> will find that RH is one of her biggest critics. Damaging and 
> disastrous as she undoubtedly was, that does not mitigate the 
> responsibility that the Blair/Brown combo have for their appalling 
> mismanagement in recent times.

I don't think they've been worse than the alternatives. Do you really 
think William Hague, Michael Howard or (saints preserve us) Iain Duncan 
Smith would have reversed The Mad Woman's economic legacy?

Andrew wrote:
> On 2008-10-21 09:01:47 +0100, Farmer Giles  said:
> 
>> Andrew wrote:
>>> On 2008-10-15 09:37:57 +0100, Robert Henderson 
>>>  said:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
>>>> attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
>>>> financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
>>>> beyond the Government's control.
>>>>
>>>> It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the 
>>>> present
>>>> troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
>>>> Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
>>>> if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
>>>> existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to 
>>>> prevent
>>>> the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
>>>> packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
>>>> is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
>>>> consumer debt.
>>>>
>>>> Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
>>>> government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
>>>> National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
>>>> the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
>>>> in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
>>>>
>>>> To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
>>>> "no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
>>>> inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
>>>> well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
>>>>  RH
>>>
>>> The key phrase here is "before the Thatcher's Big Bang" (sic). Oddly 
>>> Rab has hit the nail right on the head, but hasn't realised it. All 
>>> of our present woes go back to the time of The Mad Woman. She sold 
>>> this country a dream of a place where no one had to make anything, 
>>> where workers didn't need skills - a "service economy" based on 
>>> trading in debt. The "Big Bang"allowed such trading to occur 
>>> instantaneously - none of this messy business of handing over bits of 
>>> paper. Brown's (and Blair's and Major's) fault is that they bought 
>>> into this nightmare in the making.
>>>
>>
>> 'The Mad Woman' has indeed much to answer for. However, I think you 
>> will find that RH is one of her biggest critics. Damaging and 
>> disastrous as she undoubtedly was, that does not mitigate the 
>> responsibility that the Blair/Brown combo have for their appalling 
>> mismanagement in recent times.
> 
> I don't think they've been worse than the alternatives. Do you really 
> think William Hague, Michael Howard or (saints preserve us) Iain Duncan 
> Smith would have reversed The Mad Woman's economic legacy?
> 

Possibly not, but they wouldn't have been my choice as alternatives 
anyway. However, we shouldn't defend politicians - or let them off the 
hook - by speculating on what others might possibly have done.

On 2008-10-22 08:53:48 +0100, Farmer Giles  said:

> Andrew wrote:
>> On 2008-10-21 09:01:47 +0100, Farmer Giles  said:
>> 
>>> Andrew wrote:
>>>> On 2008-10-15 09:37:57 +0100, Robert Henderson 
>>>>  said:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let us knock on the head the contemptible lie which Gordon Brown is
>>>>> attempting to foist upon the country, the lie that the present
>>>>> financial crisis is simply a consequence of international conditions
>>>>> beyond the Government's control.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is true that Britain would not be sheltered entirely from the present
>>>>> troubles no matter how cautious and immaculate the behaviour of the
>>>>> Government had been. However, things would be vastly better for Britain
>>>>> if Brown,  had when Chancellor, imposed proper  credit controls such as
>>>>> existed before the Thatcher's Big Bang in 1986 and intervened to prevent
>>>>> the introduction of exotic new financial instruments such as the
>>>>> packaging of sub-prime mortgage debt. Brown's culpability as Chancellor
>>>>> is enhanced by the fact that he acted as cheerleader for ever more
>>>>> consumer debt.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brown other great economic "crime" has been to greatly increase
>>>>> government spending,  which has left Britain with a greatly  swollen
>>>>> National Debt at the very time when it needs to be increased to buffer
>>>>> the effects of a recession. Far from being prudent, he was spendthrift
>>>>> in the good times and put nothing away for a rainy day.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To Brown's direct responsibility may be added Labour's, in practice,
>>>>> "no limit" immigration policy since 1997  which has greatly helped to
>>>>> inflate house prices and  arguably raise the cost of public services
>>>>> well beyond any increase in tax revenue provided by the immigrants.
>>>>>  RH
>>>> 
>>>> The key phrase here is "before the Thatcher's Big Bang" (sic). Oddly 
>>>> Rab has hit the nail right on the head, but hasn't realised it. All of 
>>>> our present woes go back to the time of The Mad Woman. She sold this 
>>>> country a dream of a place where no one had to make anything, where 
>>>> workers didn't need skills - a "service economy" based on trading in 
>>>> debt. The "Big Bang"allowed such trading to occur instantaneously - 
>>>> none of this messy business of handing over bits of paper. Brown's (and 
>>>> Blair's and Major's) fault is that they bought into this nightmare in 
>>>> the making.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 'The Mad Woman' has indeed much to answer for. However, I think you 
>>> will find that RH is one of her biggest critics. Damaging and 
>>> disastrous as she undoubtedly was, that does not mitigate the 
>>> responsibility that the Blair/Brown combo have for their appalling 
>>> mismanagement in recent times.
>> 
>> I don't think they've been worse than the alternatives. Do you really 
>> think William Hague, Michael Howard or (saints preserve us) Iain Duncan 
>> Smith would have reversed The Mad Woman's economic legacy?
>> 
> 
> Possibly not, but they wouldn't have been my choice as alternatives 
> anyway. However, we shouldn't defend politicians - or let them off the 
> hook - by speculating on what others might possibly have done.

That's not unreasonable. However, when the election comes, we will wait 
to here what Dave & George have to say. Between you and me, I'm not 
putting the bar too high.