Well is he?

Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.

I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.

Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.

"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well is he?
>
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>

His ineptitude is unparallelled, without a doubt.

And he has that mannerism of pulling a face after every sentence.

"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well is he?
>
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>

I understand it's a 'bad do', but I don't think there was any other 
reasonable choice than to nationalise the banks. I think if they had been 
left to 'go under', we would have had a depression.

-- 
The best answer to feminism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scold%27s_bridle

allan tracy wrote:
> Well is he?
> 
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
> 
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.

I don't think Blair was any better, but he had the charm and charisma to 
get away with an awful lot.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:27:03 -0700, allan tracy wrote:

> Well is he?
> 
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.

He's the worst liar, but he believes his own lies.

Mr Scummy wrote:
> allan tracy wrote:
>> Well is he?
>>
>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
> 
> I don't think Blair was any better, but he had the charm and charisma to 
> get away with an awful lot.

    Yes indeed, when he wanted to he could charm fish out of water. 
Brown hasnt got the lip quivering close to tears technique:-)

"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well is he?
>
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>
>

Granted, nearly every decision he has made up until this crisis has been a 
bad one.  I do believe that he and Darling have handled the credit crisis 
better than any other world leaders.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:00:28 +0100, "Schrodinger"  wrote:

>"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
>news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Well is he?
>>
>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>
>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.

>Granted, nearly every decision he has made up until this crisis has been a 
>bad one.  I do believe that he and Darling have handled the credit crisis 
>better than any other world leaders. 

1)they have not
2)he's being forced into action by the technocrats
3)he's trying to use the situation to advance his government takeover.

his/our situation is worse than in most countries because the clown
     has been highly profligate and incompetent over several years...
thus, the actions forced on the clown are inevitably more 'violent'

the clown is now a lame duck(cow?).....

the main problem is keeping the clown away from the levers until he
    is wheeled out....
the uk pm has vastly too much power....

serious policy is now in the hands of the tories and the boe.... 
    unfortunately the clown is still attempting to meddle....
he's like a clumsy cow in the living room...highly dangerous
    but exceedingly dim.....

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr Scummy wrote:
> allan tracy wrote:
>> Well is he?
>>
>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
> 
> I don't think Blair was any better, but he had the charm and charisma to 
> get away with an awful lot.

I can't forgive him for the *princess of our hearts * speech.

"abelard"  wrote in message 
news:cpa7f4df4qengbjnpgk3k03qijufv0ri0d@4ax.com...

> serious policy is now in the hands of the tories and the boe....

What on earth have you been smoking?

The Tories are busy looking concerned and staying as quiet as mice in case 
they should say something,  anything,  that may upset things for the 
government because if it all should go 'pear shaped' they want to be able to 
say,  with a straight face,  "It wasn't me that did it,  honest".

The Bank of England is still busy pretending it's independent rather than 
doing what it's told by the government,  but they're not actually fooling 
anyone...

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well is he?
>
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>
Blair was the worst, because he appointed Brown as Chancellor and preferred 
to play the part of a World Statesman rather than looking after things at 
home. He allowed Brown a free rein to do virtually as he liked, and must 
therefore to be to blame for all the decisions that were made by his 
Chancellor. He could have fired him if he disagreed with Brown's actions, 
but he didn't. The only thing he did correctly (from his point of view) was 
to jump ship at the right time.

B.

allan tracy used his keyboard to write :
> Well is he?
>
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.

How old is the cunt he was shagging Queen Victoria years ago.

-- 
Count Baldoni

Sofa - Spud wrote:
> Mr Scummy wrote:
>> allan tracy wrote:
>>> Well is he?
>>>
>>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>> I don't think Blair was any better, but he had the charm and charisma to 
>> get away with an awful lot.
> 
> I can't forgive him for the *princess of our hearts * speech.

And his clueless attitude to cannabis.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:16:15 +0100, "Retired" 
wrote:

>
>"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
>news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Well is he?
>>
>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>
>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>>
>Blair was the worst, because he appointed Brown as Chancellor and preferred 
>to play the part of a World Statesman rather than looking after things at 
>home. He allowed Brown a free rein to do virtually as he liked, and must 
>therefore to be to blame for all the decisions that were made by his 
>Chancellor. He could have fired him if he disagreed with Brown's actions, 
>but he didn't. The only thing he did correctly (from his point of view) was 
>to jump ship at the right time.
>
>B. 
>
In this PC riddled UK we have a female and male "worst".

Thatch and Bliar.

Brown is just an office boy who was in the right place at the right
time (for him)

I wish someone would freeze my funds and then give me N times more for
free so they looked good.  

There's an exam type analogy here. Those questions where they ask some
very complicated question and then give a series of complicated
answers to choose from : except one - which is obvious.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:10:08 +0100, William Black wrote:

> The Bank of England is still busy pretending it's independent rather
> than doing what it's told by the government,  but they're not actually
> fooling anyone...

I disagree, Labour voters still buy the New Labour line that the BoE is 
independent, when the reality is it NEVER was. Gordon Brown has been the 
one pulling the interest rate strings for the past 11 years, that's why 
the housing market has gone way out of control, and now the massive house 
price crash is starting to happen (not before time).

Gordon created the fake boom to make it look like the party is electable 
and economically competent. What they didn't bank on is staying in power 
to pick up the pieces from their deception of the morons that bought into 
the New Labour idea that house prices can only ever go up, and cheap 
credit will be around forever, and you don''t need savings.

Now the economy is crashing. Thank Gordon, you know him, him who has no 
maths or economics qualifications but is an economics genius that 2+2=43

allan tracy wrote:
> Well is he?
>
> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.

On the contrary, he's probably the best chancellor we've had this century 
and as a PM the least dishonest or untrustworthy.  He is partially sighted 
and therefore doesn't look people in the face, and that makes many people 
feel that he's too distant and lacks interest in their problems.

Since there is nobody with equivalent talent on the Tory front bench, if 
there is any justice Brown will sweep back into power come the next 
election.

"Ar"  wrote in message 
news:48f451e1$0$24339$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:10:08 +0100, William Black wrote:
>
>> The Bank of England is still busy pretending it's independent rather
>> than doing what it's told by the government,  but they're not actually
>> fooling anyone...
>
> I disagree, Labour voters still buy the New Labour line that the BoE is
> independent, when the reality is it NEVER was. Gordon Brown has been the
> one pulling the interest rate strings for the past 11 years, that's why
> the housing market has gone way out of control, and now the massive house
> price crash is starting to happen (not before time).
>
> Gordon created the fake boom to make it look like the party is electable
> and economically competent. What they didn't bank on is staying in power
> to pick up the pieces from their deception of the morons that bought into
> the New Labour idea that house prices can only ever go up, and cheap
> credit will be around forever, and you don''t need savings.
>
> Now the economy is crashing. Thank Gordon, you know him, him who has no
> maths or economics qualifications but is an economics genius that 2+2=43

Except he seems to have saved the world.

Back to Central Office for you my son...

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On 14 Oct, 09:44, "The Todal"  wrote:
> allan tracy wrote:
> > Well is he?
>
> > Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>
> > I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> > Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> > and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>
> On the contrary, he's probably the best chancellor we've had this century

We've only had two chancellors this century - and Darling's not had
much chance to show how good he is yet :-)

> and as a PM the least dishonest or untrustworthy.  He is partially sighted
> and therefore doesn't look people in the face, and that makes many people
> feel that he's too distant and lacks interest in their problems.

Gordon's major problem with the public is that he isn't a clean cut
bright-eyed and bushy-tailed Eton boy (or similar). People want a
charmer, a tv personality, not a proper politician.
>
> Since there is nobody with equivalent talent on the Tory front bench, if
> there is any justice Brown will sweep back into power come the next
> election.

The standard Tory thing seems to be "we'll support the government in
whatever is necessary to get stability back ... but of course we
wouldn't have got into this mess in the first place". But I do wonder
what sort of mess they *would* have got us into.

> Except he seems to have saved the world.
>

Well he’s certainly taking the credit but remember we do have a
chancellor as well.

It’s becoming clear that Brown’s idea of Darling’s role is to be
resident scapegoat. Brown makes his appearance to take any credit or
to showboat then, as per usual, does a runner when the proverbial is
hitting the fan.

Darling is far more impressive than Brown (not difficult) and has once
already, with his worst crisis in 60 years speech, thrown down a clear
marker to Brown that he’s not there to be treated like a pratt.

It’s also clear that Darling has not been too impressed by his
inheritance and it’s also rumoured that he told Brown unequivocally
that there must be no more tax increases if he has any thoughts of
winning another election.

Anyway, the idea for saving the World came from Mervyn over at the
bank and he only got the idea from Sweden, in the first place, where
it was seen to work on a smaller scale.

If it works this time Brown will take all the credit and if it fails
Darling gets the sack.

Probably sums it up, not that it will make much difference with the
electorate because Brown’s already shown that his opinion of them
isn’t half as good as his opinion of himself and that this is the
wrong way round.

"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
news:e8f00ed0-8a1d-43bb-ad5f-49dee1591083@s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Except he seems to have saved the world.
>

Well he’s certainly taking the credit but remember we do have a
chancellor as well.

It’s becoming clear that Brown’s idea of Darling’s role is to be
resident scapegoat. Brown makes his appearance to take any credit or
to showboat then, as per usual, does a runner when the proverbial is
hitting the fan.

Darling is far more impressive than Brown (not difficult) and has once
already, with his worst crisis in 60 years speech, thrown down a clear
marker to Brown that he’s not there to be treated like a pratt.

It’s also clear that Darling has not been too impressed by his
inheritance and it’s also rumoured that he told Brown unequivocally
that there must be no more tax increases if he has any thoughts of
winning another election.

Anyway, the idea for saving the World came from Mervyn over at the
bank and he only got the idea from Sweden, in the first place, where
it was seen to work on a smaller scale.

If it works this time Brown will take all the credit and if it fails
Darling gets the sack.

Probably sums it up, not that it will make much difference with the
electorate because Brown’s already shown that his opinion of them
isn’t half as good as his opinion of himself and that this is the
wrong way round.

-----------------------


The Prime Minister has already stated that it's his idea.

If it all goes pear shaped he's gone.

Then we'll almost certainly get a Miliband.

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

>
> Gordon's major problem with the public is that he isn't a clean cut
> bright-eyed and bushy-tailed Eton boy (or similar). People want a
> charmer, a tv personality, not a proper politician.
>

Well those are good points but he’s also a buffoon which doesn’t help
at all.

>
> The standard Tory thing seems to be "we'll support the government in
> whatever is necessary to get stability back ... but of course we
> wouldn't have got into this mess in the first place". But I do wonder
> what sort of mess they *would* have got us into.
>

Well both the Tories and the Liberals have been warning, for some
time, about the equity price bubble and you do wonder what sort of
mindset it is that convinces house prices would never fall.

There were also warnings from Mervyn King as much as five years ago.

The trouble was that most of the dissenters within Labour were
Blairites whom Brown mostly despised.

But the fact is, Brown bought his own hype about no more boom or bust
and worse chose to remove any control over the equity price bubble
from the BoE, which either takes very strong drugs or what?

We’re all capable of being stupid but it takes an idiot to be capable
of being stupid whilst not realising it, but then it really does take
a f**kwitt to be capable of being stupid whilst actually believing
you’re being rather clever.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "allan tracy" 
Newsgroups: uk.media.tv.misc,uk.legal,uk.politics.misc
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: Brown Worst In Modern History?


>
> Well is he?
>
> Worst PM maybe,

Nah - Chamberlain, second worst Eden.

Or any number of french ones.

> worst ever chancellor certainly.

Nah Healey, second probably Barber.

>
> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>
> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>

He has done better in the last few days compared with the previous 400, but 
is now trying to compare himself  to Churhill.  Churchill took over at the 
darkest hour following in a crisis he had warned about for years.  Brown is 
in a crisis he has been wanred about for years.

William Black wrote:
> "abelard"  wrote in message
> news:cpa7f4df4qengbjnpgk3k03qijufv0ri0d@4ax.com...
>
>> serious policy is now in the hands of the tories and the boe....
>
> What on earth have you been smoking?
>
> The Tories are busy looking concerned and staying as quiet as mice in
> case they should say something,  anything,  that may upset things for
> the government because if it all should go 'pear shaped' they want to
> be able to say,  with a straight face,  "It wasn't me that did it, 
> honest".

I think they also want to give themselves some gravitas, "we are 
supporting the National Government in this war situation" sort of thing. 
It could be both of course. Not daft on their part, It's Browns hot 
potato.

"R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
news:wdydnUQnFPk-fmnVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@bt.com...
> > Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
> > and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
> >
>
> He has done better in the last few days compared with the previous 400, but
> is now trying to compare himself  to Churhill.  Churchill took over at the
> darkest hour following in a crisis he had warned about for years.  Brown is
> in a crisis he has been wanred about for years.

The biggest irony is that *he himself* warned about it. He took over as
chancellor in 1997 a few years after the last housing bubble popped, and
promised in his first budget that, unlike the incompetant Tories, he wouldn't
let house prices get out of control.

Then he seems to have got hooked on the fiscal and political benefits of rising
house prices. It must have been like crack cocaine to a Labour chancellor -
rising prices were popular while at the same time being a source of ever
increasing revenue (ie stamp duty, inheritance tax, care home fees). The public
seemed to be stupid enough to enjoy getting shafted, because they lived under
the illusion of being richer, and with it came greater spending and so greater
economic growth.  It was win/win/win for him.

But just like a pyramid scam, rising house prices are only a circulation of
money from buyer to seller so on average people aren't any richer, and when the
losers in the scam, ie those wanting to buy for the first time (or buy more than
they sell ie move upmarket) stopped being able to afford it, he desperately
tried to keep it going with subsidies for "key workers" and shared equity
schemes.

Even after the lessons of the last 18 months, he is *still* desperately trying
to get back to having his fix of rising house prices by dictating to the banks
he's taken over that they must return to their old ways of lending.

--
Andy

u have to understand that brown can not be the worst PM in UK history
blairs wife says he is comparable to winston churchill who got a state
funeral
well there u go cherie blair is completely insane

"allan tracy"  wrote in message
news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Well is he?

Well every bloody PM is, according to certain sections of
society at least.
Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown. All villified in their time and
called 'the worst Prime Minister ever'. I don't mention
Mr Callaghan because I am too young to recall his policies in
detail and the media's response to them. but no doubt given
the winter of discontent he would have been villified at the time.

Give Brown 20 years after he leaves office and come back
to me with the question as to whether he's the worst :)

Col

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:03:14 +0100, William Black wrote:

> Except he seems to have saved the world.

Only if you believe in the bullshit that the BBC propaganda machine is 
spinning out.

"Ar"  wrote in message 
news:48f50a0a$0$29489$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:03:14 +0100, William Black wrote:
>
>> Except he seems to have saved the world.
>
> Only if you believe in the bullshit that the BBC propaganda machine is
> spinning out.

The markets are up,  the USA is busy copying his ideas and even the US press 
is hailing him as the man who saved the world.

If he gets this right he's probably just won the next election,  if he's got 
it wrong he's still alright because nobody has yet done any better and the 
Tories are busy keeping quiet except to say, in a still small voice, 'No 
cash for fat cats'...

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"William Black"  wrote in message 
news:gd32k3$j6r$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Ar"  wrote in message 
> news:48f50a0a$0$29489$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:03:14 +0100, William Black wrote:
>>
>>> Except he seems to have saved the world.
>>
>> Only if you believe in the bullshit that the BBC propaganda machine is
>> spinning out.
>
> The markets are up,  the USA is busy copying his ideas and even the US 
> press is hailing him as the man who saved the world.
>
> If he gets this right he's probably just won the next election,  if he's 
> got it wrong he's still alright because nobody has yet done any better and 
> the Tories are busy keeping quiet except to say, in a still small voice, 
> 'No cash for fat cats'...

You are "Mark in Devon" AICMFP

"John Bennett"  wrote in message 
news:prSdndNBrb_0kmjVnZ2dnUVZ8q7inZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "William Black"  wrote in message 
> news:gd32k3$j6r$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "Ar"  wrote in message 
>> news:48f50a0a$0$29489$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:03:14 +0100, William Black wrote:
>>>
>>>> Except he seems to have saved the world.
>>>
>>> Only if you believe in the bullshit that the BBC propaganda machine is
>>> spinning out.
>>
>> The markets are up,  the USA is busy copying his ideas and even the US 
>> press is hailing him as the man who saved the world.
>>
>> If he gets this right he's probably just won the next election,  if he's 
>> got it wrong he's still alright because nobody has yet done any better 
>> and the Tories are busy keeping quiet except to say, in a still small 
>> voice, 'No cash for fat cats'...
>
> You are "Mark in Devon" AICMFP
Nope,  I'm Bill in Yorkshire...

Where it's bloody wet...

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"William Black"  wrote in message
news:gd32k3$j6r$1@registered.motzarella.org...

>
> The markets are up,  the USA is busy copying his ideas and even the US press
> is hailing him as the man who saved the world.
>
> If he gets this right he's probably just won the next election,  if he's got
> it wrong he's still alright because nobody has yet done any better and the
> Tories are busy keeping quiet except to say, in a still small voice, 'No
> cash for fat cats'...

History will be the judge of that.
His very own 'Falklands Factor' perhaps?

Col

>
> > The Tories are busy looking concerned and staying as quiet as mice in
> > case they should say something,  anything,  that may upset things for
> > the government because if it all should go 'pear shaped' they want to
> > be able to say,  with a straight face,  "It wasn't me that did it,
> > honest".
>
> I think they also want to give themselves some gravitas, "we are
> supporting the National Government in this war situation" sort of thing.
> It could be both of course. Not daft on their part, It's Browns hot
> potato.

Lets' face it, Brown is now in the unenviable position of steering the
UK into recession, all the Tories need to do is sit back, don’t rock
the boat and make sure enough of the low flying proverbial sticks to
this Government.

That’s never been difficult in the past especially with an electorate
desperate for someone to blame.

"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
news:a1b376e4-5f11-440f-acd6-3b5e51e51290@v15g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The Tories are busy looking concerned and staying as quiet as mice in
> > case they should say something, anything, that may upset things for
> > the government because if it all should go 'pear shaped' they want to
> > be able to say, with a straight face, "It wasn't me that did it,
> > honest".
>
> I think they also want to give themselves some gravitas, "we are
> supporting the National Government in this war situation" sort of thing.
> It could be both of course. Not daft on their part, It's Browns hot
> potato.

Lets' face it, Brown is now in the unenviable position of steering the
UK into recession, all the Tories need to do is sit back, don’t rock
the boat and make sure enough of the low flying proverbial sticks to
this Government.

---------------------

That depends.

If it all goes horribly wrong for someone else (preferably,  for Brown,  the 
USA) he'll be able to say "Look at that set of poor bastards,  a ship load 
of food aid for the poor starving people of the USA is setting out today 
from the UK" he'll probably get away with it,  especially if the degenerate 
sultans of the Middle East are all looking poor and uncomfortable as well...

And remember,  the cleverest man in British politics is back...

With apologies to Lewis Carroll:

Beware the Mandleson my son,  the lies that catch,  the spin that's spun...

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:29:29 +0100, "William Black"
 wrote:

>And remember,  the cleverest man in British politics is back...
>
>With apologies to Lewis Carroll:
>
>Beware the Mandleson my son,  the lies that catch,  the spin that's spun...

Is it just me, or does Mandleson remind anyone else of the child
catcher from "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"?

wrote in message 
news:a7lcf49850vljjl709en8imqkvmjvpmp2p@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:29:29 +0100, "William Black"
>  wrote:
>
>>And remember,  the cleverest man in British politics is back...
>>
>>With apologies to Lewis Carroll:
>>
>>Beware the Mandleson my son,  the lies that catch,  the spin that's 
>>spun...
>
> Is it just me, or does Mandleson remind anyone else of the child
> catcher from "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"?

God only knows,  I notice no photographs of him in a red cloak have escaped 
yet...

On the other hand it does mean that politics in the UK will be at least 
slightly more entertaining.  He's good value for money.

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

middlelight@googlemail.com wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:29:29 +0100, "William Black"
>  wrote:
> 
> > And remember,  the cleverest man in British politics is back...
> > 
> > With apologies to Lewis Carroll:
> > 
> > Beware the Mandleson my son,  the lies that catch,  the spin that's
> > spun...
> 
> Is it just me, or does Mandleson remind anyone else of the child
> catcher from "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"?


Tony Blair did

"Yachan The Karate Monkey"  wrote in message 
news:hlNIk.71269$E41.13173@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> "allan tracy"  wrote in message 
> news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Well is he?
>>
>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>
>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>>
>
> His ineptitude is unparallelled, without a doubt.
>
> And he has that mannerism of pulling a face after every sentence.

That mannerism is in fact an indictment of our NHS.  It is apparently the 
result of a botched operation.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:30:21 GMT, "Yachan The Karate Monkey"
 wrote:

>And he has that mannerism of pulling a face after every sentence. 

And very irritating it is, too. I watched his conference speech and
the following week compared it to David Cameron's own speech. Crikey,
what a difference! Brown has this habit of saying a line, then looking
down at the lectern with a very grim look on his face, as if to say
"...so that's telling YOU, you bastards!" Cameron, on the other hand,
cajoles and persuades through his vastly better equipped basket of
charisma. Cameron is a pleasure to listen to while he's giving his
speeches, whereas Brown is as dull as ditchwater.

MM

On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:00:28 +0100, "Schrodinger"  wrote:

>
>"allan tracy"  wrote in message 
>news:d8636b46-a361-4e0f-b74f-41a1c387aaee@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Well is he?
>>
>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>
>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>>
>>
>
>Granted, nearly every decision he has made up until this crisis has been a 
>bad one.  I do believe that he and Darling have handled the credit crisis 
>better than any other world leaders. 

It hasn't been handled yet. We are at the early stages of applying a
trial medicine. The disease may yet flare up again. No one appears to
know how the totally new situation will actually work in practice.
What about the laws of capitalism? What about the free market? What
about competition? How can you have competition if the state owns 60%
or one bank, 40% of another, and, in the case of NR, I believe it's
the full 100%? What does it mean when the government ~says~ it wants
the banks to resume lending like in 2007? What will homeowners already
in negative equity be thinking about what to do this morning? What
about savings and savings rates at the newly part-nationalised banks -
are the rates competitive, and if not, to whom does one complain, the
banks or the government? So many questions and there are dozens more.
Plus, there will be knock-on effects to come that no one has imagined
yet.

MM

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:44:28 +0100, "The Todal" 
wrote:

>allan tracy wrote:
>> Well is he?
>>
>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>
>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>
>On the contrary, he's probably the best chancellor we've had this century 
>and as a PM the least dishonest or untrustworthy.  He is partially sighted 
>and therefore doesn't look people in the face, and that makes many people 
>feel that he's too distant and lacks interest in their problems.
>
>Since there is nobody with equivalent talent on the Tory front bench, if 
>there is any justice Brown will sweep back into power come the next 
>election. 

You think after leading Britain into a chasm of massive debt that
Brown deserves justice? The only justice he needs is being chucked out
of office, along with the rest of his pathetic and inept cabinet. Call
this a government? It's a shambles. Barely a week passes now in which
yet another couple of million data records are lost, stolen, mislaid,
sold, whatever. And yet Jackboots has the gall to come to the House at
8:30 in the evening to give an "emergency" statement. "Ermegency", as
in, "Cor, how do I save face about THIS one?" She actually agreed with
Jim Naughtie this morning that this new emergency bill she's been
preparing may be used against only ONE person! The woman is completely
mad, and so is the leadership that put her in post. I would be
severely worried if she was in charge of the floor polishing machine.

MM

"MM"  wrote in message 
news:ign8f4th4h0hhef15vo7o7ar2a57udnblj@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:30:21 GMT, "Yachan The Karate Monkey"
>  wrote:
>
>>And he has that mannerism of pulling a face after every sentence.
>
> And very irritating it is, too. I watched his conference speech and
> the following week compared it to David Cameron's own speech. Crikey,
> what a difference! Brown has this habit of saying a line, then looking
> down at the lectern with a very grim look on his face, as if to say
> "...so that's telling YOU, you bastards!" Cameron, on the other hand,
> cajoles and persuades through his vastly better equipped basket of
> charisma. Cameron is a pleasure to listen to while he's giving his
> speeches, whereas Brown is as dull as ditchwater.

I daresay you'd prefer to buy a second hand car from that nice Mr Cameron, 
then. He exudes reassurance even when he's shafting you up the arse.

"MM"  wrote in message 
news:45o8f4duditcakbe0cv0q444p93icivpob@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:44:28 +0100, "The Todal" 
> wrote:
>
>>allan tracy wrote:
>>> Well is he?
>>>
>>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>>
>>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>>
>>On the contrary, he's probably the best chancellor we've had this century
>>and as a PM the least dishonest or untrustworthy.  He is partially sighted
>>and therefore doesn't look people in the face, and that makes many people
>>feel that he's too distant and lacks interest in their problems.
>>
>>Since there is nobody with equivalent talent on the Tory front bench, if
>>there is any justice Brown will sweep back into power come the next
>>election.
>
> You think after leading Britain into a chasm of massive debt that
> Brown deserves justice?

TINA, as we used to hear in Thatcher's day.  There is no alternative. There 
never was. The government does its best to keep some sort of control over 
events, but really the financial markets and the US government have most of 
the power.

> The only justice he needs is being chucked out
> of office, along with the rest of his pathetic and inept cabinet. Call
> this a government? It's a shambles. Barely a week passes now in which
> yet another couple of million data records are lost, stolen, mislaid,
> sold, whatever.

Irrelevant. The loss of data is caused by the sort of human error that is 
bound to happen no matter who is in charge at the top, no matter who gets 
sacked whenever the loss occurs, no matter which contractor has the contract 
for managing the data. It is an inevitable by-product of a society that 
collects and processes data.


>And yet Jackboots has the gall to come to the House at
> 8:30 in the evening to give an "emergency" statement. "Ermegency", as
> in, "Cor, how do I save face about THIS one?" She actually agreed with
> Jim Naughtie this morning that this new emergency bill she's been
> preparing may be used against only ONE person! The woman is completely
> mad, and so is the leadership that put her in post. I would be
> severely worried if she was in charge of the floor polishing machine.

All Home Secretaries in living memory, apart from one (Ken Clarke) have been 
transformed by their office into crazed megalomaniacs, obsessed with locking 
people up, punishing them and controlling them.  They have their commitment 
to civil liberties amputated when they first enter the door of the Home 
Office.  The current incumbent, whatever her name is (Tracy Bloggs?), is as 
mediocre and clueless as any that we've had. She probably thought that, like 
a professional footballer, it was important for her to score for the team 
and she was resentful that she couldn't deliver a goal for Gordon on a topic 
that was important ages ago (when it was a means by which Downing Street 
hoped to improve poll ratings) but no longer matters very much in the face 
of current problems.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:12:43 +0100, "The Todal" 
wrote:

>
>"MM"  wrote in message 
>news:ign8f4th4h0hhef15vo7o7ar2a57udnblj@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:30:21 GMT, "Yachan The Karate Monkey"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>And he has that mannerism of pulling a face after every sentence.
>>
>> And very irritating it is, too. I watched his conference speech and
>> the following week compared it to David Cameron's own speech. Crikey,
>> what a difference! Brown has this habit of saying a line, then looking
>> down at the lectern with a very grim look on his face, as if to say
>> "...so that's telling YOU, you bastards!" Cameron, on the other hand,
>> cajoles and persuades through his vastly better equipped basket of
>> charisma. Cameron is a pleasure to listen to while he's giving his
>> speeches, whereas Brown is as dull as ditchwater.
>
>I daresay you'd prefer to buy a second hand car from that nice Mr Cameron, 
>then. He exudes reassurance even when he's shafting you up the arse. 

Cameron is not "shafting" anyone. You like Brown? Then you vote for
him! Not many are going to!

MM

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:34:08 +0100, "The Todal" 
wrote:

>
>"MM"  wrote in message 
>news:45o8f4duditcakbe0cv0q444p93icivpob@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:44:28 +0100, "The Todal" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>allan tracy wrote:
>>>> Well is he?
>>>>
>>>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>>>
>>>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>>>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>>>
>>>On the contrary, he's probably the best chancellor we've had this century
>>>and as a PM the least dishonest or untrustworthy.  He is partially sighted
>>>and therefore doesn't look people in the face, and that makes many people
>>>feel that he's too distant and lacks interest in their problems.
>>>
>>>Since there is nobody with equivalent talent on the Tory front bench, if
>>>there is any justice Brown will sweep back into power come the next
>>>election.
>>
>> You think after leading Britain into a chasm of massive debt that
>> Brown deserves justice?
>
>TINA, as we used to hear in Thatcher's day.  There is no alternative. There 
>never was. The government does its best to keep some sort of control over 
>events, but really the financial markets and the US government have most of 
>the power.
>
>> The only justice he needs is being chucked out
>> of office, along with the rest of his pathetic and inept cabinet. Call
>> this a government? It's a shambles. Barely a week passes now in which
>> yet another couple of million data records are lost, stolen, mislaid,
>> sold, whatever.
>
>Irrelevant. The loss of data is caused by the sort of human error that is 
>bound to happen no matter who is in charge at the top, no matter who gets 
>sacked whenever the loss occurs, no matter which contractor has the contract 
>for managing the data. It is an inevitable by-product of a society that 
>collects and processes data.

Many other countries' governments and organisations collect and
process data, but can you recall any similar incident? Here in the UK
we have a whole raft of such incidents. Human error is just an excuse
for ineptitude practised at the highest levels. It is not just
capitalism that is associated with the trickle-down effect.

>>And yet Jackboots has the gall to come to the House at
>> 8:30 in the evening to give an "emergency" statement. "Ermegency", as
>> in, "Cor, how do I save face about THIS one?" She actually agreed with
>> Jim Naughtie this morning that this new emergency bill she's been
>> preparing may be used against only ONE person! The woman is completely
>> mad, and so is the leadership that put her in post. I would be
>> severely worried if she was in charge of the floor polishing machine.
>
>All Home Secretaries in living memory, apart from one (Ken Clarke) have been 
>transformed by their office into crazed megalomaniacs, obsessed with locking 
>people up, punishing them and controlling them.  They have their commitment 
>to civil liberties amputated when they first enter the door of the Home 
>Office.  The current incumbent, whatever her name is (Tracy Bloggs?), is as 
>mediocre and clueless as any that we've had. She probably thought that, like 
>a professional footballer, it was important for her to score for the team 
>and she was resentful that she couldn't deliver a goal for Gordon on a topic 
>that was important ages ago (when it was a means by which Downing Street 
>hoped to improve poll ratings) but no longer matters very much in the face 
>of current problems. 

So what's the point of having her? Anyone could do her job.

MM

"JohnB"  wrote in message 
news:7165353b-d6b1-4d44-9f93-71428260869b@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On 14 Oct, 09:44, "The Todal"  wrote:
>> allan tracy wrote:
>> > Well is he?
>>
>> > Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>
>> > I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>
>> > Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>> > and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>>
>> On the contrary, he's probably the best chancellor we've had this century
>
> We've only had two chancellors this century - and Darling's not had
> much chance to show how good he is yet :-)
>

Is it just me or does Alistair Darling bear more than a passing resemblance 
to Sam the Eagle (of Muppets fame)?

http://www.metapeeps.com/images/famous_images/Sam_the_Eagle.jpg

In article ,
MM   wrote:
>Many other countries' governments and organisations collect and
>process data, but can you recall any similar incident? Here in the UK

Would comparable incidents happening in e.g. Germany or France
be reported in the UK media? I'm not sure they would.

Francis

In article ,
M.I.5?  wrote:
>Is it just me or does Alistair Darling bear more than a passing resemblance 
>to Sam the Eagle (of Muppets fame)?
>
>http://www.metapeeps.com/images/famous_images/Sam_the_Eagle.jpg

You're not the only person to think so:

http://bucf.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/lookalike.jpg

Francis

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:36:23 +0100, MM  wrote:



>Cameron is not "shafting" anyone. 

Only cos he hasn't yet had the chance

>You like Brown? Then you vote for
>him! Not many are going to!
>

I suspect he will be re-elected but the NuToryLabour party will be out
in favour of the NuLabourTory party

"The Todal"  wrote in message 
news:6lj79iFch976U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "MM"  wrote in message 
> news:45o8f4duditcakbe0cv0q444p93icivpob@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:44:28 +0100, "The Todal" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>allan tracy wrote:
>>>> Well is he?
>>>>
>>>> Worst PM maybe, worst ever chancellor certainly.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking hard but nothing and no one really compares.
>>>>
>>>> Is there another politician that can begin to compare for incompetence
>>>> and the disaster he's reaped upon us and he's Scottish.
>>>
>>>On the contrary, he's probably the best chancellor we've had this century
>>>and as a PM the least dishonest or untrustworthy.  He is partially 
>>>sighted
>>>and therefore doesn't look people in the face, and that makes many people
>>>feel that he's too distant and lacks interest in their problems.
>>>
>>>Since there is nobody with equivalent talent on the Tory front bench, if
>>>there is any justice Brown will sweep back into power come the next
>>>election.
>>
>> You think after leading Britain into a chasm of massive debt that
>> Brown deserves justice?
>
> TINA, as we used to hear in Thatcher's day.  There is no alternative. 
> There never was. The government does its best to keep some sort of control 
> over events, but really the financial markets and the US government have 
> most of the power.

Of course there was an alternative

He could have cautioned about the risk that people were taking by excessive 
borrowing and told people that history has shown that house prices cannot go 
on rising forever.

He could even have introduced lending restrictions.

Yes, some people would have got around these, but the average numpty would 
have heard the message and some of them would have acted differently.

Instead of which he rubbed his hand with glee at all the extra revenue 
soaring house prices was giving him, and put his head in the sand.

He went on an on about "no boom and bust" when it is blindingly obvious that 
it is not possible to ride the biggest boom in history, forever.  The only 
way to avoid a bust is to temper the boom, did he try? Not one iota!

If he had tried and failed,I would be giving him credit for that, but he 
didn't.

tim

In message , The Todal 
 writes
>
>"MM"  wrote in message
>news:ign8f4th4h0hhef15vo7o7ar2a57udnblj@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:30:21 GMT, "Yachan The Karate Monkey"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>And he has that mannerism of pulling a face after every sentence.
>>
>> And very irritating it is, too. I watched his conference speech and
>> the following week compared it to David Cameron's own speech. Crikey,
>> what a difference! Brown has this habit of saying a line, then looking
>> down at the lectern with a very grim look on his face, as if to say
>> "...so that's telling YOU, you bastards!" Cameron, on the other hand,
>> cajoles and persuades through his vastly better equipped basket of
>> charisma. Cameron is a pleasure to listen to while he's giving his
>> speeches, whereas Brown is as dull as ditchwater.
>
>I daresay you'd prefer to buy a second hand car from that nice Mr Cameron,
>then. He exudes reassurance even when he's shafting you up the arse.
>
>

Cameron's problem is that to the extent that the Tories have ever 
criticised Labour on financial matters, it has been from the perspective 
of "Yes, but more so". If Brown's credibility is damaged - and his 
actions this week have gone a long way to restore it - Cameron's is shot 
to hell and back, and this week has exposed him as a vapid lightweight 
who is all style and no substance, just when we desperately need 
substance.

I don't much like Brown, but even as a staunch Lib Dem, I don't think I 
can bring myself to vote for the idiotic Cameron clone they have elected 
to lead them. Brown is currently the least worst option.
-- 
Richard Miller

"Francis Burton"  wrote in message 
news:1224004106.8594@irys.nyx.net...
> In article ,
> M.I.5?  wrote:
>>Is it just me or does Alistair Darling bear more than a passing 
>>resemblance
>>to Sam the Eagle (of Muppets fame)?
>>
>>http://www.metapeeps.com/images/famous_images/Sam_the_Eagle.jpg
>
> You're not the only person to think so:
>
> http://bucf.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/lookalike.jpg
>
>

That captioning has something of Private Eye about it.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:42:55 +0100, "William Black"
 wrote:

>
> wrote in message 
>news:a7lcf49850vljjl709en8imqkvmjvpmp2p@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:29:29 +0100, "William Black"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>And remember,  the cleverest man in British politics is back...
>>>
>>>With apologies to Lewis Carroll:
>>>
>>>Beware the Mandleson my son,  the lies that catch,  the spin that's 
>>>spun...
>>
>> Is it just me, or does Mandleson remind anyone else of the child
>> catcher from "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"?
>
>God only knows,  I notice no photographs of him in a red cloak have escaped 
>yet...

I saw one last week. On the web somewhere.

MM