...what can you do?
If you come forward, what happens to you?
(country of origin - Afghanistan)

Thank you

"Maria"  wrote in message 
news:gOKdnRt0lccVvGzVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@bt.com...
> ...what can you do?
> If you come forward, what happens to you?
> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>
> Thank you

I don't get it .. like some film said a long time ago, explain it to me like 
I'm a five year old ...

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 +0100, Maria 
wrote:

>...what can you do?
>If you come forward, what happens to you?
>(country of origin - Afghanistan)
>
>Thank you


Is it about your husband again?

rover wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 +0100, Maria 
> wrote:
> 
>> ...what can you do?
>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>
>> Thank you
> 
> 
> Is it about your husband again?
> 

No.

On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 퍝, Maria 
> wrote:
>
> >...what can you do?
> >If you come forward, what happens to you?
> >(country of origin - Afghanistan)
>
> >Thank you
>
> Is it about your husband again?

--------------------------------------------------------

I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.

I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these
FAKE DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw

Hotblack Desiato wrote:
> "Maria"  wrote in message 
> news:gOKdnRt0lccVvGzVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> ...what can you do?
>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>
>> Thank you
> 
> I don't get it .. like some film said a long time ago, explain it to me like 
> I'm a five year old ... 
> 
> 
Someone comes into Britain illegally (as a child - no parents with them) 
- they stay here undetected for 5 years - they cannot work legally, see 
a doctor, claim anything, take a driving test, nothing - they also 
cannot go home because they do not have a passport.
Best advice for the person please. If they come forward, will they end 
up in prison?

NB this person is not a criminal, and has stayed alive by working cash 
in hand for various places.

Special.Care wrote:
> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 +0100, Maria 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...what can you do?
>>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>> Thank you
>> Is it about your husband again?
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
> 
> I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
> before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these
> FAKE DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw

I'm happily married thank you. If you look you will see I have posted to 
uk.legal. There are plenty of government sites that tell you what to do 
if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that tells 
you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this country.

On Oct 12, 12:58 am, Maria  wrote:
> Special.Care wrote:
> > On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
> >> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 퍝, Maria 
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> ...what can you do?
> >>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
> >>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
> >>> Thank you
> >> Is it about your husband again?
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------
>
> > I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
>
> > I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
> > before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these
> > FAKE DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
> >http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw
>
> I'm happily married thank you. If you look you will see I have posted to
> uk.legal. There are plenty of government sites that tell you what to do
> if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that tells
> you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this country.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

=========================================================
I'm not just happily married but I have a girlfriend too, but if
you've read my writings you can see that I expose the *ban on loving
more than one* as a warmongering mechanism.
It does seem to me, Maria, that you are inventing hypothetical
questions to pose here on uk.legal , to see what the response might
be.
I still think you're a real nice Lady, Maria.

Special.Care wrote:
> On Oct 12, 12:58 am, Maria  wrote:
>> Special.Care wrote:
>>> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 +0100, Maria 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ...what can you do?
>>>>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>>>>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>>>> Thank you
>>>> Is it about your husband again?
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
>>> I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
>>> before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these
>>> FAKE DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
>>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw
>> I'm happily married thank you. If you look you will see I have posted to
>> uk.legal. There are plenty of government sites that tell you what to do
>> if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that tells
>> you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this country.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> =========================================================
> I'm not just happily married but I have a girlfriend too, but if
> you've read my writings you can see that I expose the *ban on loving
> more than one* as a warmongering mechanism.
> It does seem to me, Maria, that you are inventing hypothetical
> questions to pose here on uk.legal , to see what the response might
> be.
> I still think you're a real nice Lady, Maria.

Thank you, but I promise this is a real person - it had not crossed my 
mind before what someone who was trapped in this country would do, which 
is why I have always argued against an amnesty for illegal immigrants. 
Now I have come across a situation which has made me think about it a 
bit more, but I don't know the answer - I would like to give the person 
some decent advice.

Maria wrote:


     <snip>

>There are plenty of government sites that tell you what
> to do if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that
> tells you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this
> country.

And does that come as a surprise to you?

Would you expect to see Government sites advising thieves, muggers, or hit & 
run drivers what to do? My guess is that as they know they are acting 
illegally they are not likely to respond to a Government site that says "We 
advise you to turn yourself in"

But the position of someone who knows a person is an illegal immigrant is 
somewhat different.

I assume you've seen this site from where you dan get informed advice;
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/

-- 
Joe Lee

On Oct 11, 5:08 pm, Maria  wrote:
> Special.Care wrote:
> > On Oct 12, 12:58 am, Maria  wrote:
> >> Special.Care wrote:
> >>> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 퍝, Maria 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> ...what can you do?
> >>>>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
> >>>>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
> >>>>> Thank you
> >>>> Is it about your husband again?
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
> >>> I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
> >>> before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these
> >>> FAKE DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
> >>>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw
> >> I'm happily married thank you. If you look you will see I have posted to
> >> uk.legal. There are plenty of government sites that tell you what to do
> >> if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that tells
> >> you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this country.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > =========================================================
> > I'm not just happily married but I have a girlfriend too, but if
> > you've read my writings you can see that I expose the *ban on loving
> > more than one* as a warmongering mechanism.
> > It does seem to me, Maria, that you are inventing hypothetical
> > questions to pose here on uk.legal , to see what the response might
> > be.
> > I still think you're a real nice Lady, Maria.
>
> Thank you, but I promise this is a real person - it had not crossed my
> mind before what someone who was trapped in this country would do, which
> is why I have always argued against an amnesty for illegal immigrants.
> Now I have come across a situation which has made me think about it a
> bit more, but I don't know the answer - I would like to give the person
> some decent advice.

Why not ask them how they managed to cross so many countries before
reaching Britain
and why they didn't stay in the first dafe one they came to?  Then ask
them why they left.
Then send them back.

"Jobless Afghan mother of 7 gets 170,000 pounds a year in benefits".
(no mention of a husband and father). She lives in a house worth 1
million pounds, courtesy
of Ealing Council who pays the owner of he house, (another one with a
funny name),
1000's of pounds a month to  rent it from him, so they can house
"asylum seekers".

Daily Mail. Oct. 9th. 2008

75,000 Afghans in Britain.  Daily Mail Oct. 9th. 2008.

The question is -what the hell are they doing in Britain!!! Did
British people  leave Britain
during WW2 or did they stay and fight!!




- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Oct 12, 12:53 am, "Special.Care" 
wrote:
> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
>
> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
>

Nothing wrong with that.

Hypotheticals are still interesting.

Joe Lee wrote:
> Maria wrote:
> 
> 
>     <snip>
> 
>> There are plenty of government sites that tell you what
>> to do if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that
>> tells you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this
>> country.
> 
> And does that come as a surprise to you?

Frankly, yes. There seem to be unlimited numbers of sites out there 
dedicated to people who have done wrong, who are in trouble, who need 
help and advice. Nobody seems to have started one for this, which given 
the large number of illegals in this country I find surprising.

> 
> Would you expect to see Government sites advising thieves, muggers, or 
> hit & run drivers what to do? My guess is that as they know they are 
> acting illegally they are not likely to respond to a Government site 
> that says "We advise you to turn yourself in"

As much as I am against illegal immigration, I do not see someone who 
has committed no crime other than being here illegally in the same way 
that I see a person who has intentionally harmed someone else. They 
evidently do need advice. But yes, generally there are texts that state 
specifically what will happen to you if you have done something illegal, 
something that describes the process.

> 
> But the position of someone who knows a person is an illegal immigrant 
> is somewhat different.

?

> I assume you've seen this site from where you dan get informed advice;
> http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/
> 

I hadn't actually, I was looking on the wrong gov site evidently.
I can't find anything specific pertaining to someone who is not newly 
arrived or has not been refused asylum. Most information presumes that 
the person has or wishes to apply for asylum.
I presume they would be able to get help under the
'Assisted Voluntary Return of Irregular Migrants' scheme, but the person 
is very frightened of being sent to prison. I am trying to find out 
specifically what happens to people who come forward, especially for 
someone that has been here a long time without applying for asylum or 
assistance. I don't know if the person wishes to claim asylum, or just 
get home, but they can't go home without a passport. On the asylum 
process pages, it just says that you 'may be detained', but doesn't 
explain further.

Boedicia@isp.com wrote:
> On Oct 11, 5:08 pm, Maria  wrote:
>> Special.Care wrote:
>>> On Oct 12, 12:58 am, Maria  wrote:
>>>> Special.Care wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 +0100, Maria 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> ...what can you do?
>>>>>>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>>>>>>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>> Is it about your husband again?
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
>>>>> I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
>>>>> before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these
>>>>> FAKE DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
>>>>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw
>>>> I'm happily married thank you. If you look you will see I have posted to
>>>> uk.legal. There are plenty of government sites that tell you what to do
>>>> if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that tells
>>>> you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this country.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> =========================================================
>>> I'm not just happily married but I have a girlfriend too, but if
>>> you've read my writings you can see that I expose the *ban on loving
>>> more than one* as a warmongering mechanism.
>>> It does seem to me, Maria, that you are inventing hypothetical
>>> questions to pose here on uk.legal , to see what the response might
>>> be.
>>> I still think you're a real nice Lady, Maria.
>> Thank you, but I promise this is a real person - it had not crossed my
>> mind before what someone who was trapped in this country would do, which
>> is why I have always argued against an amnesty for illegal immigrants.
>> Now I have come across a situation which has made me think about it a
>> bit more, but I don't know the answer - I would like to give the person
>> some decent advice.
> 
> Why not ask them how they managed to cross so many countries before
> reaching Britain
> and why they didn't stay in the first dafe one they came to?  Then ask
> them why they left.
> Then send them back.
> 
> "Jobless Afghan mother of 7 gets 170,000 pounds a year in benefits".
> (no mention of a husband and father). She lives in a house worth 1
> million pounds, courtesy
> of Ealing Council who pays the owner of he house, (another one with a
> funny name),
> 1000's of pounds a month to  rent it from him, so they can house
> "asylum seekers".
> 
> Daily Mail. Oct. 9th. 2008
>

Yes I saw that.

> 75,000 Afghans in Britain.  Daily Mail Oct. 9th. 2008.

Can't say I blame them really - if we didn't go around bombing these 
places, most people wouldn't have a reason to leave...

> The question is -what the hell are they doing in Britain!!!

Maybe they think that Britain has a special interest in them given that 
Britain has a military presence fighting in their country.

> Did
> British people  leave Britain
> during WW2 or did they stay and fight!!
> 

Not biting on this one Bo...this person claims nothing and hasn't asked 
for anything - they were only 12 years old and were brought here by 
others, so I'm not making a judgement in this case!

Special.Care wrote:
> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.

If you don't like what she writes, don't read it!!!  I really don't think 
she will care too much if you kf her!

M James Hunt wrote:
> On Oct 12, 12:53 am, "Special.Care" 
> wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
>>
>> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
>>
>
> Nothing wrong with that.
>
> Hypotheticals are still interesting.

Quite!

Hotblack Desiato wrote:
> "Maria"  wrote in message
> news:gOKdnRt0lccVvGzVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> ...what can you do?
>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>
>> Thank you
>
> I don't get it .. like some film said a long time ago, explain it to
> me like I'm a five year old ...

Galaxy Quest:  'explain as if speaking to a child'

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:58:25 +0100, Maria wrote:

> Special.Care wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
>>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 +0100, Maria  wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...what can you do?
>>>> If you come forward, what happens to you? (country of origin -
>>>> Afghanistan)
>>>> Thank you
>>> Is it about your husband again?
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
>> 
>> I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
>> before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these FAKE
>> DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw
> 
> I'm happily married thank you. If you look you will see I have posted to
> uk.legal. There are plenty of government sites that tell you what to do if
> you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that tells you
> what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this country.

Yeah! These occasional posters don't realise that you take time away from
your important and busy schedule dealing with your business and caring
for your family! We are all very grateful and enjoy your posts Maria.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

"Maria"  wrote in message 
news:QsGdnV8yYPOzoGzVnZ2dnUVZ8uKdnZ2d@bt.com...
> Hotblack Desiato wrote:
>> "Maria"  wrote in message


> NB this person is not a criminal, and has stayed alive by working cash in 
> hand for various places.

Isn't that a paradox?

Maria wrote:
> ...what can you do?

What you *can't* do would take less time to explain. Getting a driving 
licence and a bank account are two of the biggest problems.

> If you come forward, what happens to you?

Why would anyone "come forward"?

(So, no, I don't know what would happen if they did - all the illegals I 
know are trying hard not to be noticed by the authorities).

> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
> 
The country of origin won't matter much, under plans to deport illegals 
to "safe" third countries, where their country of origin is not 
considered a safe place to return them to. Of course, if the third 
country then deports them home after, say, a petty criminal conviction 
(or suspicion of one) - hardly the UK's fault, is it?

The third country gets a nice little earner, for each illegal accepted, 
plus it gets a slave workforce that has to take what it gets.. The UK 
government can crow about their own success at getting rid of illegals. 
Every one is a winner..


--
Sue

"mentalguy2008"  wrote in message 
news:WgjIk.100557$ix.5186@newsfe10.ams2...
>
> "Maria"  wrote in message 
> news:QsGdnV8yYPOzoGzVnZ2dnUVZ8uKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Hotblack Desiato wrote:
>>> "Maria"  wrote in message
>
>
>> NB this person is not a criminal, and has stayed alive by working cash in 
>> hand for various places.
>
> Isn't that a paradox?

People who don't officially exist have to pay tax?
Can he vote as well?

-- 
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Maria"  wrote in message 
news:QtGdnaBbpsOHAGzVRVnyiQA@bt.com...
> Joe Lee wrote:
>> Maria wrote:
>>
>>
>>     <snip>
>>
>>> There are plenty of government sites that tell you what
>>> to do if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that
>>> tells you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this
>>> country.
>>
>> And does that come as a surprise to you?
>
> Frankly, yes. There seem to be unlimited numbers of sites out there 
> dedicated to people who have done wrong, who are in trouble, who need help 
> and advice. Nobody seems to have started one for this, which given the 
> large number of illegals in this country I find surprising.
>
>>
>> Would you expect to see Government sites advising thieves, muggers, or 
>> hit & run drivers what to do? My guess is that as they know they are 
>> acting illegally they are not likely to respond to a Government site that 
>> says "We advise you to turn yourself in"
>
> As much as I am against illegal immigration, I do not see someone who has 
> committed no crime other than being here illegally in the same way that I 
> see a person who has intentionally harmed someone else. They evidently do 
> need advice. But yes, generally there are texts that state specifically 
> what will happen to you if you have done something illegal, something that 
> describes the process.

What a load of crap, eventually if they dont do anything they will turn to 
crime and possibly Violent Crime.

Your friend made it all the way here, and im sure committed many crimes in 
doing so

Palindrome wrote:
> Maria wrote:
>> ...what can you do?
> 
> What you *can't* do would take less time to explain. Getting a driving 
> licence and a bank account are two of the biggest problems.
> 
>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
> 
> Why would anyone "come forward"?

Depends why they came and how they got here in the first place I 
suppose. When you are desperate it would be easy to presume that life 
would have to be better elsewhere (especially if you are living under 
Taliban rule or are being bombed) - once you get there, the reality is 
not always all that and if you find yourself unable to live or leave, 
what do you do? This person was smuggled here age 12 - they didn't make 
an adult choice to do that, and now they have grown up, they realise 
that it's stupid to live like this (even if some people are happy with 
living in this way). They haven't seen their parents since they left...

> 
> (So, no, I don't know what would happen if they did - all the illegals I 
> know are trying hard not to be noticed by the authorities).

This is the first one I've met!

> 
>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>
> The country of origin won't matter much, under plans to deport illegals 
> to "safe" third countries, where their country of origin is not 
> considered a safe place to return them to. Of course, if the third 
> country then deports them home after, say, a petty criminal conviction 
> (or suspicion of one) - hardly the UK's fault, is it?
> 
> The third country gets a nice little earner, for each illegal accepted, 
> plus it gets a slave workforce that has to take what it gets.. The UK 
> government can crow about their own success at getting rid of illegals. 
> Every one is a winner..

Yuk.

Maria wrote:
> ...what can you do?
> If you come forward, what happens to you?
> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>
> Thank you

they should report to an immigration centre.  any police station will give 
them the address (shown on 'motorway cops' recently)

Maria wrote:
> Hotblack Desiato wrote:
>> "Maria"  wrote in message
>> news:gOKdnRt0lccVvGzVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@bt.com...
>>> ...what can you do?
>>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>
>> I don't get it .. like some film said a long time ago, explain it to
>> me like I'm a five year old ...
>>
>>
> Someone comes into Britain illegally (as a child - no parents with
> them) - they stay here undetected for 5 years - they cannot work
> legally, see a doctor, claim anything, take a driving test, nothing -
> they also cannot go home because they do not have a passport.
> Best advice for the person please. If they come forward, will they end
> up in prison?
>
> NB this person is not a criminal, and has stayed alive by working cash
> in hand for various places.

Why did this person not apply for asylum? If they came as a child (how, 
why, with who?) then the state has certain duties under international 
conventions. If they came as a child and are now doing odd jobs then 
they must be teenaged and I think coming forward is risky. However if 
they wish to take their chances then having as much support as possible 
from friends, references in documented, and perhaps 'sponsoring' by one 
of his ex-employers or another would help. I think you could probably 
get good information in confidence from charities or groups that work in 
the field of immigration/asylum.

I wish the person well and salute you for doing what you can to help 
them.

You can drive without a licence and kill and only get a four month
sentance. Or if lucky get housed in an expensive London home.

mentalguy2008 wrote:
> "Maria"  wrote in message 
> news:QsGdnV8yYPOzoGzVnZ2dnUVZ8uKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Hotblack Desiato wrote:
>>> "Maria"  wrote in message
> 
> 
>> NB this person is not a criminal, and has stayed alive by working cash in 
>> hand for various places.
> 
> Isn't that a paradox? 

I suppose so. He doesn't have a criminal mentality, and hasn't taken 
anything - he has helped a business to operate through working, and 
presumably that pays tax. He has consciously taken nothing. He uses no 
public services, doesn't drive. He is probably a net contributor just by 
what he spends of his (low) wages.
Yes, he is committing a crime by being here and earning without paying 
tax. I would imagine he would cost the taxpayer a damn sight more locked 
up in a detention centre or prison.

Lou Ravi wrote:
> Maria wrote:
>> Hotblack Desiato wrote:
>>> "Maria"  wrote in message
>>> news:gOKdnRt0lccVvGzVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>> ...what can you do?
>>>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
>>>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>> I don't get it .. like some film said a long time ago, explain it to
>>> me like I'm a five year old ...
>>>
>>>
>> Someone comes into Britain illegally (as a child - no parents with
>> them) - they stay here undetected for 5 years - they cannot work
>> legally, see a doctor, claim anything, take a driving test, nothing -
>> they also cannot go home because they do not have a passport.
>> Best advice for the person please. If they come forward, will they end
>> up in prison?
>>
>> NB this person is not a criminal, and has stayed alive by working cash
>> in hand for various places.
> 
> Why did this person not apply for asylum?

I am presuming that he knew nothing about it being so young.

> If they came as a child (how, 
> why, with who?) 

Not sure - making further inquiries. By the look of it he was herded off 
with a bunch of adults.

>then the state has certain duties under international 
> conventions. If they came as a child and are now doing odd jobs then 
> they must be teenaged and I think coming forward is risky.

He is 17-18 I think. The tales he has told of the way he has been 
treated in London (when he was younger) are horrendous - when you are 
illegal, you can hardly make a complaint...
It's a shame because He is one of those who *could* make a valuable 
contribution - clever at chemistry and physics etc.

> However if 
> they wish to take their chances then having as much support as possible 
> from friends, references in documented, and perhaps 'sponsoring' by one 
> of his ex-employers or another would help. I think you could probably 
> get good information in confidence from charities or groups that work in 
> the field of immigration/asylum.

That's not a bad idea...I'll look into it.

> I wish the person well and salute you for doing what you can to help 
> them. 

Merci.

Essex Laptops - Andy Usher wrote:
> "Maria"  wrote in message 
> news:QtGdnaBbpsOHAGzVRVnyiQA@bt.com...
>> Joe Lee wrote:
>>> Maria wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     <snip>
>>>
>>>> There are plenty of government sites that tell you what
>>>> to do if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that
>>>> tells you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this
>>>> country.
>>> And does that come as a surprise to you?
>> Frankly, yes. There seem to be unlimited numbers of sites out there 
>> dedicated to people who have done wrong, who are in trouble, who need help 
>> and advice. Nobody seems to have started one for this, which given the 
>> large number of illegals in this country I find surprising.
>>
>>> Would you expect to see Government sites advising thieves, muggers, or 
>>> hit & run drivers what to do? My guess is that as they know they are 
>>> acting illegally they are not likely to respond to a Government site that 
>>> says "We advise you to turn yourself in"
>> As much as I am against illegal immigration, I do not see someone who has 
>> committed no crime other than being here illegally in the same way that I 
>> see a person who has intentionally harmed someone else. They evidently do 
>> need advice. But yes, generally there are texts that state specifically 
>> what will happen to you if you have done something illegal, something that 
>> describes the process.
> 
> What a load of crap, eventually if they dont do anything they will turn to 
> crime and possibly Violent Crime.

Then the sooner he gets good advice, the better.
You advocate a full amnesty then? There are ~ 1 million illegal 
immigrants in this country. How are we going to catch them and prevent 
the crime they are allegedly committing?

> 
> Your friend made it all the way here, and im sure committed many crimes in 
> doing so 
> 
> 
He was just a kid...he is educated, polite and hard-working. With 
respect, I posted here to try and help, not start an illegal-bashing - 
thread.

"Maria"  wrote in message 
news:ru6dnak1Q8or2m7VnZ2dnUVZ8tbinZ2d@bt.com...
> mentalguy2008 wrote:
>> "Maria"  wrote in message 
>> news:QsGdnV8yYPOzoGzVnZ2dnUVZ8uKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>> Hotblack Desiato wrote:
>>>> "Maria"  wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> NB this person is not a criminal, and has stayed alive by working cash 
>>> in hand for various places.
>>
>> Isn't that a paradox?
>
> I suppose so. He doesn't have a criminal mentality, and hasn't taken 
> anything - he has helped a business to operate through working, and 
> presumably that pays tax.

If he's illegal he can't get an NI number, so if he's working he isn't 
paying tax,  so he's breaking the law.

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

Maria wrote:
> Joe Lee wrote:
>> Maria wrote:
>>
>>
>>     <snip>
>>
>>> There are plenty of government sites that tell you what
>>> to do if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing
>>> that tells you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in
>>> this country.
>>
>> And does that come as a surprise to you?
>
> Frankly, yes. There seem to be unlimited numbers of sites out there
> dedicated to people who have done wrong, who are in trouble, who need
> help and advice. Nobody seems to have started one for this, which
> given the large number of illegals in this country I find surprising.
>
>>
>> Would you expect to see Government sites advising thieves, muggers,
>> or hit & run drivers what to do? My guess is that as they know they
>> are acting illegally they are not likely to respond to a Government
>> site that says "We advise you to turn yourself in"
>
> As much as I am against illegal immigration, I do not see someone who
> has committed no crime other than being here illegally in the same way
> that I see a person who has intentionally harmed someone else. They
> evidently do need advice. But yes, generally there are texts that
> state specifically what will happen to you if you have done something
> illegal, something that describes the process.
>
>>
>> But the position of someone who knows a person is an illegal
>> immigrant is somewhat different.
>
> ?
>
>> I assume you've seen this site from where you dan get informed
>> advice; http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/
>>
>
> I hadn't actually, I was looking on the wrong gov site evidently.
> I can't find anything specific pertaining to someone who is not newly
> arrived or has not been refused asylum. Most information presumes that
> the person has or wishes to apply for asylum.

Did you see the 'Contact' link?
Would you not feel comfortable speaking to someone who could give you a 
specific opinion relating to the specific individuals circumstances?
ISTM that generalities are no use to you when you require advice & 
information regarding this particular individual's circumstances.

> I presume they would be able to get help under the
> 'Assisted Voluntary Return of Irregular Migrants' scheme, but the
> person is very frightened of being sent to prison. I am trying to
> find out specifically what happens to people who come forward,
> especially for someone that has been here a long time without
> applying for asylum or assistance. I don't know if the person wishes
> to claim asylum, or just get home, but they can't go home without a
> passport. On the asylum process pages, it just says that you 'may be
> detained', but doesn't explain further.

Presumably because each case is assessed according to the particular 
individual's circumstances!

BTW how old is he now? & do you know who he's been living with? I assume 
he's not been living alone or renting accomodation for himself ever since he 
arrived in the UK at the age of 12.

-- 
Joe Lee

Maria wrote:
> >
> Then the sooner he gets good advice, the better.
> You advocate a full amnesty then? There are ~ 1 million illegal
> immigrants in this country.

Can I ask where you get that number from?
I remember Blair being completely unable to put a figure on it when 
interviewed by Paxman on Newsnight a few years back. I simply can't imagine 
that anyone can authoritatively place a reliable number on it any more than 
someone could claim to know how many holes would it take to fill The Albert 
Hall.

     <snip>
-- 
Joe Lee

On Oct 11, 11:49 pm, Maria  wrote:
> Boedi...@isp.com wrote:
> > On Oct 11, 5:08 pm, Maria  wrote:
> >> Special.Care wrote:
> >>> On Oct 12, 12:58 am, Maria  wrote:
> >>>> Special.Care wrote:
> >>>>> On Oct 11, 11:32 pm, rover  wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:58:45 퍝, Maria 
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> ...what can you do?
> >>>>>>> If you come forward, what happens to you?
> >>>>>>> (country of origin - Afghanistan)
> >>>>>>> Thank you
> >>>>>> Is it about your husband again?
> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> I think Maria just creates FAKE DEBATES for effect.
> >>>>> I do think Maria is a very nice Lady, as I have said very emphatically
> >>>>> before, but she seems very lonely and in need of creating all these
> >>>>> FAKE DEBATES for effect instead of looking for love.
> >>>>>http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u79ehRk1jfw
> >>>> I'm happily married thank you. If you look you will see I have posted to
> >>>> uk.legal. There are plenty of government sites that tell you what to do
> >>>> if you are seeking asylum, wanting a visa etc. but nothing that tells
> >>>> you what you should do if you are an illegal trapped in this country.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> =========================================================
> >>> I'm not just happily married but I have a girlfriend too, but if
> >>> you've read my writings you can see that I expose the *ban on loving
> >>> more than one* as a warmongering mechanism.
> >>> It does seem to me, Maria, that you are inventing hypothetical
> >>> questions to pose here on uk.legal , to see what the response might
> >>> be.
> >>> I still think you're a real nice Lady, Maria.
> >> Thank you, but I promise this is a real person - it had not crossed my
> >> mind before what someone who was trapped in this country would do, which
> >> is why I have always argued against an amnesty for illegal immigrants.
> >> Now I have come across a situation which has made me think about it a
> >> bit more, but I don't know the answer - I would like to give the person
> >> some decent advice.
>
> > Why not ask them how they managed to cross so many countries before
> > reaching Britain
> > and why they didn't stay in the first dafe one they came to?  Then ask
> > them why they left.
> > Then send them back.
>
> > "Jobless Afghan mother of 7 gets 170,000 pounds a year in benefits".
> > (no mention of a husband and father). She lives in a house worth 1
> > million pounds, courtesy
> > of Ealing Council who pays the owner of he house, (another one with a
> > funny name),
> > 1000's of pounds a month to  rent it from him, so they can house
> > "asylum seekers".
>
> > Daily Mail. Oct. 9th. 2008
>
> Yes I saw that.
>
> > 75,000 Afghans in Britain.  Daily Mail Oct. 9th. 2008.
>
> Can't say I blame them really - if we didn't go around bombing these
> places, most people wouldn't have a reason to leave...

   I   agree it was foolish to invade Afghan and Iraq, blame Blair for
it. However, if everyone
 left their country just because it was at war the whole planet would
be on the move.
>
> > The question is -what the hell are they doing in Britain!!!
>
> Maybe they think that Britain has a special interest in them given that
> Britain has a military presence fighting in their country.

That's daft.  They are using any excuse of moving to European
countries knowing
that once in it will be impossible to get them out.
>
> > Did
> > British people  leave Britain
> > during WW2 or did they stay and fight!!
>
> Not biting on this one Bo...this person claims nothing and hasn't asked
> for anything - they were only 12 years old and were brought here by
> others, so I'm not making a judgement in this case!-

If he was only 12 then he has parents in Britain, it is *they* who are
responsible for him.

Don't believe everything that so-called "refugees" tell you Maria,
they always have a story ready for the gullible. What needs to be done
is find his parents and send them back. He also
should not be getting money under the table, it is illegal.



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