John, I liked your population vs liability formula so much, I've 
recalculated it for this week. And I have a question.

Current eurozone population: 304 million

Current eurozone government promises:

700 billion dollars we agreed last week.

+ 772 billion dollars (German government guarantee on private bank accounts)

+ 567 billion dollars (Irish government guarantee on private bank accounts)

+ 33 billion dollars (Hypo Real)

+ 8 billion dollars (Unicredit)

= 2.08 trillion dollars in guarantees.

Current liability per europerson (2.08 trillion divided by 304 million) = 
6,842 dollars and 10 cents. This still includes Iceland, but I can't 
remember how much that was, and in any case it won't affect the end figure 
much.

Question: Last week you said Europe seems to be running a better show so 
far. Have you revised your view?

>>> 700 milliards-billion/300 million = 233$
>>> 1100 milliards-billion/500 million=220$
>>>
>>> Europe seems to be running a better show so far.

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:32:04 +0100, "DVH"  wrote:

>John, I liked your population vs liability formula so much, I've 
>recalculated it for this week. And I have a question.
>
>Current eurozone population: 304 million
>
>Current eurozone government promises:
>
>700 billion dollars we agreed last week.
>
>+ 772 billion dollars (German government guarantee on private bank accounts)
>
>+ 567 billion dollars (Irish government guarantee on private bank accounts)
>
>+ 33 billion dollars (Hypo Real)
>
>+ 8 billion dollars (Unicredit)
>
>= 2.08 trillion dollars in guarantees.
>
>Current liability per europerson (2.08 trillion divided by 304 million) = 
>6,842 dollars and 10 cents. This still includes Iceland, but I can't 
>remember how much that was, and in any case it won't affect the end figure 
>much.

has the news arrived at deeveedeesville that iceland is in meltdown 

regards

>Question: Last week you said Europe seems to be running a better show so 
>far. Have you revised your view?
>
>>>> 700 milliards-billion/300 million = 233$
>>>> 1100 milliards-billion/500 million=220$
>>>>
>>>> Europe seems to be running a better show so far.
>

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"abelard"  wrote in message 
news:qfrje4ttbc7jtfb78dv3bpc63fo0uf3nn5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:32:04 +0100, "DVH"  wrote:
>
>>John, I liked your population vs liability formula so much, I've
>>recalculated it for this week. And I have a question.
>>
>>Current eurozone population: 304 million
>>
>>Current eurozone government promises:
>>
>>700 billion dollars we agreed last week.
>>
>>+ 772 billion dollars (German government guarantee on private bank 
>>accounts)
>>
>>+ 567 billion dollars (Irish government guarantee on private bank 
>>accounts)
>>
>>+ 33 billion dollars (Hypo Real)
>>
>>+ 8 billion dollars (Unicredit)
>>
>>= 2.08 trillion dollars in guarantees.
>>
>>Current liability per europerson (2.08 trillion divided by 304 million) =
>>6,842 dollars and 10 cents. This still includes Iceland, but I can't
>>remember how much that was, and in any case it won't affect the end figure
>>much.
>
> has the news arrived at deeveedeesville that iceland is in meltdown

Oh I see what you mean.

They should of joined the euro! :)))))

>
> regards
>
>>Question: Last week you said Europe seems to be running a better show so
>>far. Have you revised your view?
>>
>>>>> 700 milliards-billion/300 million = 233$
>>>>> 1100 milliards-billion/500 million=220$
>>>>>
>>>>> Europe seems to be running a better show so far.
>>
>
> -- 
> web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
> energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
>  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
>  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
>                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"abelard"  wrote in message 
news:qfrje4ttbc7jtfb78dv3bpc63fo0uf3nn5@4ax.com...

>
> has the news arrived at deeveedeesville that iceland is in meltdown

I see the UK government has guaranteed deposits in the biggest bank 
(Kaupthing) up to £50,000 per depositor.

There's a hell of a lot of intra-government work going on here, some of 
which I suppose we're not aware of.

Anecdotally and rumour-basedly, the US may have helped out several European 
governments already.

"Moreover, the Fed made an extra $330 billion available to other central 
banks. That boosted to $620 billion the total amount available to the 
central bank through currency "swap" arrangements, where dollars are traded 
for their currencies. That total is up from $290 billion previously being 
made available through such arrangements.

The Bank of Canada, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan, the European 
Central Bank, the Swiss National Bank and the central banks of Denmark, 
Norway, Australia and Sweden are involved in those swap arrangements."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_bi_ge/fed_credit_crisis

DVH wrote:
> John, I liked your population vs liability formula so much, I've
> recalculated it for this week. And I have a question.
>
> Current eurozone population: 304 million
>
> Current eurozone government promises:
>
> 700 billion dollars we agreed last week.
>
> + 772 billion dollars (German government guarantee on private bank
> accounts)
> + 567 billion dollars (Irish government guarantee on private bank
> accounts)
> + 33 billion dollars (Hypo Real)
>
> + 8 billion dollars (Unicredit)
>
> = 2.08 trillion dollars in guarantees.

In guarantees (for the most part) not bailouts. Guaranteeing savings
doesn't cost the government a penny until there is default somewhere.

>
> Question: Last week you said Europe seems to be running a better show
> so far. Have you revised your view?

Of course not. What did I say, that the Eurozone seems to be running a
better show so far (so far) and that was the case when I wrote it. It
probably still is. There have been a few bailouts but nowhere near the
level of the USA or even, pro-rata, the UK.

We shall see for the future.

"Lou Ravi"  wrote in message 
news:48ea6288$1$901$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
> DVH wrote:
>> John, I liked your population vs liability formula so much, I've
>> recalculated it for this week. And I have a question.
>>
>> Current eurozone population: 304 million
>>
>> Current eurozone government promises:
>>
>> 700 billion dollars we agreed last week.
>>
>> + 772 billion dollars (German government guarantee on private bank
>> accounts)
>> + 567 billion dollars (Irish government guarantee on private bank
>> accounts)
>> + 33 billion dollars (Hypo Real)
>>
>> + 8 billion dollars (Unicredit)
>>
>> = 2.08 trillion dollars in guarantees.
>
> In guarantees (for the most part) not bailouts. Guaranteeing savings
> doesn't cost the government a penny until there is default somewhere.
>
>>
>> Question: Last week you said Europe seems to be running a better show
>> so far. Have you revised your view?
>
> Of course not.

Denial is a river in Aix.

> What did I say, that the Eurozone seems to be running a
> better show so far (so far) and that was the case when I wrote it. It
> probably still is. There have been a few bailouts but nowhere near the
> level of the USA or even, pro-rata, the UK.

But what's happened in the US is more or less what's happened in Europe. 
Central banks in both blocs have offered credit.

I don't blame you for misunderstanding. The TARP's been called a bailout, as 
if the money had been paid already. But are you aware that not a penny of 
Freddie and Fannie's credit line has been drawn down yet?

>
> We shall see for the future.
>
>
>

DVH wrote:
> "Lou Ravi"  wrote in message
> news:48ea6288$1$901$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>> DVH wrote:
>>> John, I liked your population vs liability formula so much, I've
>>> recalculated it for this week. And I have a question.
>>>
>>> Current eurozone population: 304 million
>>>
>>> Current eurozone government promises:
>>>
>>> 700 billion dollars we agreed last week.
>>>
>>> + 772 billion dollars (German government guarantee on private bank
>>> accounts)
>>> + 567 billion dollars (Irish government guarantee on private bank
>>> accounts)
>>> + 33 billion dollars (Hypo Real)
>>>
>>> + 8 billion dollars (Unicredit)
>>>
>>> = 2.08 trillion dollars in guarantees.
>>
>> In guarantees (for the most part) not bailouts. Guaranteeing savings
>> doesn't cost the government a penny until there is default somewhere.
>>
>>>
>>> Question: Last week you said Europe seems to be running a better
>>> show so far. Have you revised your view?
>>
>> Of course not.
>
> Denial is a river in Aix.
>
>> What did I say, that the Eurozone seems to be running a
>> better show so far (so far) and that was the case when I wrote it. It
>> probably still is. There have been a few bailouts but nowhere near
>> the level of the USA or even, pro-rata, the UK.
>
> But what's happened in the US is more or less what's happened in
> Europe. Central banks in both blocs have offered credit.
> I don't blame you for misunderstanding. The TARP's been called a
> bailout, as if the money had been paid already. But are you aware
> that not a penny of Freddie and Fannie's credit line has been drawn
> down yet?

True enough. However I insist on the fact that the situations in the 
USA, and to a lesser extent in the UK, are completely different to those 
in continental Europe. So far only one bank has gone bust, Fortis, how 
many have gone bust in the UK/USA. Considerably more n'est-ce pas?