On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:59:44 -0400, "Sid9"  wrote:

>
>"GunOwner"  wrote in 
>message news:4qoke59o70dovj8bf3npe4o6650n14nhfd@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:32:35 -0400, "Sid9"  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Scout"  wrote in message
>>>news:p9jGm.38$Tx1.29@newsfe15.iad...
>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>> "Scout"  wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>> news:fL8Gm.18364$Xq1.5818@newsfe10.iad...
>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>> "Scout"  wrote in
>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>> news:qX7Gm.40354$eJ4.37979@newsfe07.iad...
>>>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Scout"  wrote in
>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>> news:%z6Gm.10866$U55.9763@newsfe02.iad...
>>>>>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Spartan613"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:IRSFm.50467$ze1.48326@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Devil's Advocate" <Devil's_Advocate@devil.xxx> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:E-6dnS8Il_T-a3zXnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@forethought.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/10/hows-that-gun-control-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> working-out-for.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Friday, October 23, 2009
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How's that Gun Control Working Out for You?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Britain now has some of the toughest gun laws in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> recognize that only the strictest control of firearms 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> protect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> public.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    -- Home Office Minister Alun Michael, 11/3/97 press
>>>>>>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That was right after passage of the handgun ban.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Today?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And not just any guns, either!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deployed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand-picked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unit,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire
>>>>>>>>>>>>> estates into "no go" zones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Local politicians and anti-gun campaigners have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anger
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the news that the officers will carry Heckler & Koch 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MP5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> submachine
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guns
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And rightly so! They should be carrying UMPs in .40cal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - capable of firing up to 800 rounds-per-minute
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Except they can't really do that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - and Glock semi- automatic pistols.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This, in a country where at least one media outlet called
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> full-auto
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glock 18 pistol the Most Terrifying Gun in the World!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why? What was so scary about it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> "There's no shortcut to anywhere worth going".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Firearm death rate:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> United States                   11.66/ 100,000
>>>>>>>>>>> England/ Wales                 0.38/ 100,000
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 11.66/ 0.38 = 30.68
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are over 30 times more likely to die from a gunshot in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>>>>> States
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Only if it's self inflicted. You really should not have
>>>>>>>>>> included
>>>>>>>>>> suicides in
>>>>>>>>>> your data.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will simply note your source is a highly slanted site
>>>>>>>>>> pushing
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>>>> political agenda and will massage the statistics to suit
>>>>>>>>>> themselves.
>>>>>>>>>> Such as
>>>>>>>>>> including suicides (which are meanings independent) in the
>>>>>>>>>> statistics as if
>>>>>>>>>> the gun is somehow responsible for being chosen as the 
>>>>>>>>>> means.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> Got a website that shows Great Britain with more forearms
>>>>>>>>> deaths
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> the USA?
>>>>>>>>> I'll be pleased to see such
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I will simply note you totally ignore the point being 
>>>>>>>> made,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> instead attempt to change the subject.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> My point stands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That you can't show that guns are responsible and you wnat to
>>>>>> blame
>>>>>> the means rather than the cause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Show me that the United States is not the MOST dangerous 
>>>>>>> country
>>>>>>> regarding firearm deaths.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fail to see how the desire to kill oneself should be blamed on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> means used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As such, I simply don't see the danger you imply exists from 
>>>>>> guns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I say it is the most dangerous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can say the sky is green as well, but that doesn't make it
>>>>>> true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He equivocates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, I'm simply pointing out that serious suicide has been 
>>>>>> shown
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be means independent as such the rate of serious suicide is in 
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> manner governed by the presence or absence of any particular 
>>>>>> means
>>>>>> but rather is caused by something else entirely and attempting 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> cast blame upon the means is to state that you the cause isn't
>>>>>> relevent to you, only the blood they provide to push a 
>>>>>> particular
>>>>>> political agenda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gee, and surprise, that's exactly what you, and your source, is
>>>>>> doing. Trying to blame those deaths on the presence of guns, 
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> the reality is nothing could be further from the truth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> .
>>>>> .
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> I want you to tell me why the United States has to be 30 time 
>>>>> more
>>>>> dangerous than the UK regarding firearms deaths.
>>>>
>>>> Social, economic, cultural and political differences.
>>>>
>>>> You know, the things that actually cause crime, murder, and 
>>>> suicide.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>.
>>>.
>>>.
>>>30 Times?
>>>
>>>The simple presence of an estimated 200,000,000 to 300,000,000
>>>firearms in the United States has no bearing, in your opinion?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Guns save lives.
>
>
>I have a few more like that:
>
>Black is White.
>Hot is Cold.
>bush,jr is smart.
>====================
>An American is more than 30 times more likely to die from a firearm 
>than a Brit.
> 
>
Brits are 1000 times more likely to die of boredom than Americans



--
'Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither 
inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for 
the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage 
than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater 
confidence than an armed man.''


''No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or 
tenements).''

--- Jefferson 

  The whole of that Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the 
people at large or considered as individuals...[I]t establishes some rights 
of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a 
right to deprive them of.

---Albert Gallatin to Alexander Addison, Oct 7, 1789, MS. in N.Y. 
Hist. Soc.-A.G. Papers, 2.

  The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full 
possession of them.

--- Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646

  The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have 
a gun.

--- Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the 
Constitution


  That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress 
to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to 
prevent the people of the United states who are peaceable citizens from 
keeping their own arms...

--- Samuel Adams