http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm

Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government 
that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
 wrote:

> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!

Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?

Are the commies coming, or what?

On Jun 27, 8:00 am, Polly the Parrot 
wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>
>  wrote:
> > Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
> > government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>
> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?


An armed population is the limiting factor on tyrannical government.
Every dictatorship has first disarmed it's population upon taking
power before clamping down on other rights taken for granted by a free
people.

Not to mention that violent crimes are lower in states where people
enjoy their inheirent right to keep and BEAR arms.





>
> Are the commies coming, or what?

"Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>
> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT

**Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge granted 
to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human right' does not 
extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood (ie: a gun). It 
does, however, extend to such things as:
* Clean drinking water
* Food.
* Clothing.
* Housing.
* Medical care.

I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are prevented from 
access to some of the above items.

 and ANY government
> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!

**You are entitled to your demented opinion.


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Polly the Parrot  wrote in 
news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site:

> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>  wrote:
> 
>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
> 
> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?

It's your duty to defend yourself.

"Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>
>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>
> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge granted 
> to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human right' does not 
> extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood (ie: a gun). 
> It does, however, extend to such things as:
> * Clean drinking water
> * Food.
> * Clothing.
> * Housing.
> * Medical care.
>
> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are prevented 
> from access to some of the above items.
>
> and ANY government
>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>
> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>
>
> -- 
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au

You are a nut job.

Gaz

"Gaz"  wrote in message 
news:6ciladF3et8tqU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
> news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
>> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>
>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>>
>> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge 
>> granted to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human right' 
>> does not extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood 
>> (ie: a gun). It does, however, extend to such things as:
>> * Clean drinking water
>> * Food.
>> * Clothing.
>> * Housing.
>> * Medical care.
>>
>> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are prevented 
>> from access to some of the above items.
>>
>> and ANY government
>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>
>> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Trevor Wilson
>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>
> You are a nut job.

**Lemme see if I have this right:

I suggest that clean drinking water, food, shelter, clothing and medical 
services are fundamental human rights and you call _ME_ a "nut job"?

Yeah, right.


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
news:6cilgfF3hi70bU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
> news:6ciladF3et8tqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>> news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
>>> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>>
>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>>>
>>> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge 
>>> granted to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human 
>>> right' does not extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and 
>>> wood (ie: a gun). It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>> * Clean drinking water
>>> * Food.
>>> * Clothing.
>>> * Housing.
>>> * Medical care.
>>>
>>> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are prevented 
>>> from access to some of the above items.
>>>
>>> and ANY government
>>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>
>>> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Trevor Wilson
>>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>>
>> You are a nut job.
>
> **Lemme see if I have this right:
>
> I suggest that clean drinking water, food, shelter, clothing and medical 
> services are fundamental human rights and you call _ME_ a "nut job"?
>
> Yeah, right.
>
>

The right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

Gaz

"Gaz"  wrote in message 
news:6cilmhF3eq404U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
> news:6cilgfF3hi70bU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>
>> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
>> news:6ciladF3et8tqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>>>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>>>
>>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>>>>
>>>> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge 
>>>> granted to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human 
>>>> right' does not extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and 
>>>> wood (ie: a gun). It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>>> * Clean drinking water
>>>> * Food.
>>>> * Clothing.
>>>> * Housing.
>>>> * Medical care.
>>>>
>>>> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are prevented 
>>>> from access to some of the above items.
>>>>
>>>> and ANY government
>>>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>
>>>> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>>>
>>> You are a nut job.
>>
>> **Lemme see if I have this right:
>>
>> I suggest that clean drinking water, food, shelter, clothing and medical 
>> services are fundamental human rights and you call _ME_ a "nut job"?
>>
>> Yeah, right.
>>
>>
>
> The right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.

**Please explain how that can be accomplished without water, food, shelter 
and medical services. IOW: How will you hold your fucking gun, if you are 
dead?


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson  wrote: 
> **Please explain how that can be accomplished without water, food, shelter 
> and medical services. IOW: How will you hold your fucking gun, if you are 
> dead?
> 
> 
That's easy.  Use your gun to kill your fellow Yanks for water, food, shelter 
and medical services.   They do it all the time.

The fat savages are probably celebrating by killing each other right now!   
The only way 40 million of them can get health coverage is if they show up at 
the emergency room with a bullet wound.

Their government has to borrow money so the military can have bullets.

From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Thu, 26 Jun 2008
22:56:02 +0000 (UTC) : 

>Polly the Parrot  wrote in 
>news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>> 
>> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>
>It's your duty to defend yourself.

Neither of the two previous messages are on my server.  (Must be a PLOT!)

Anyhow, the question is not about guns per se, IMO, but about self-defense.
And in today's fine world, that means equal force to a assailant who may
possibly have a gun.  In fact, if the assailant had a bowie knife, i would
prefer to have a short barrel shotgun. ;-)

Much of what I have heard today is why was the vote 5-4 and not 9-0?

I think that I have an applicable quote from Blackstone here somewhere.

FACE

--

"Those rights, then, which God and nature have established, and are
 therefore called natural rights, such as life and liberty, need not
 the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man
 than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when
 declared by the municipal laws to be inviolate. On the contrary, no
 human legislature has power to abridge or destroy them, unless the
 owner shall himself commit some act that amounts to a forfeiture." 
  - Sir William Blackstone

(well, that wasn't it, but it's kinda nice, too..........)

"Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is not,
neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
 
Ahh....!

"atec77"  wrote in message 
news:g418at$h18$5@aioe.org...
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
>> news:6cilmhF3eq404U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6cilgfF3hi70bU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:6ciladF3et8tqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>>>>>> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge 
>>>>>> granted to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human 
>>>>>> right' does not extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic 
>>>>>> and wood (ie: a gun). It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>>>>> * Clean drinking water
>>>>>> * Food.
>>>>>> * Clothing.
>>>>>> * Housing.
>>>>>> * Medical care.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are 
>>>>>> prevented from access to some of the above items.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and ANY government
>>>>>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>>> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>>>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>>>>> You are a nut job.
>>>> **Lemme see if I have this right:
>>>>
>>>> I suggest that clean drinking water, food, shelter, clothing and 
>>>> medical services are fundamental human rights and you call _ME_ a "nut 
>>>> job"?
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, right.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
>>
>> **Please explain how that can be accomplished without water, food, 
>> shelter and medical services. IOW: How will you hold your fucking gun, if 
>> you are dead?
>>
>>
> WHy don't you ask that African Dictator ,

**I'm asking 'Gaz'. However, if you wish to get involved, I'll ask you:

How will you hold your fucking gun, if you are dead?


  he has removed the rights to
> food shelter medical and no guns for anyone but his forces

**Bullshit. The white farmers who fled their farms were armed. It seems 
their guns weren't much use against the sticks weilded by their attackers. 
Fundamentally, just to remind you, this discussion is about human rights. 
Ownership of a gun is not a human right. It is a priveledge granted to US 
citizens, if they belong to an organised militia group. Human rights are far 
more basic than the ownership of a particular object.


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson wrote:

  A 'human right' does not
> extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood (ie: a gun). It 
> does, however, extend to such things as:
> * Clean drinking water
> * Food.
> * Clothing.
> * Housing.
> * Medical care.
> 

If you claim that the items you have listed above are human rights you 
have to claim also that someone else has a duty to supply them.

I fact no human has any right to any material thing except in so far as 
he can buy it, provide it for himself or has entered into a contract 
with others to supply it for him.

If there are human rights they must apply only to intangibles such as 
justice and freedom.  Freedom of course includes the freedom to lawfully 
obtain the items you have listed together with many other things, 
including guns, which we may wish to have.

R

Trevor Wilson wrote:
> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
> news:6cilmhF3eq404U1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>> news:6cilgfF3hi70bU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6ciladF3et8tqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>>>>> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge 
>>>>> granted to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human 
>>>>> right' does not extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and 
>>>>> wood (ie: a gun). It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>>>> * Clean drinking water
>>>>> * Food.
>>>>> * Clothing.
>>>>> * Housing.
>>>>> * Medical care.
>>>>>
>>>>> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are prevented 
>>>>> from access to some of the above items.
>>>>>
>>>>> and ANY government
>>>>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>>>> You are a nut job.
>>> **Lemme see if I have this right:
>>>
>>> I suggest that clean drinking water, food, shelter, clothing and medical 
>>> services are fundamental human rights and you call _ME_ a "nut job"?
>>>
>>> Yeah, right.
>>>
>>>
>> The right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
> 
> **Please explain how that can be accomplished without water, food, shelter 
> and medical services. IOW: How will you hold your fucking gun, if you are 
> dead?
> 
> 

Rights relate to matters which do not impose duties on others.  When you 
insist that you have a right to food you are also insisting that others 
have a duty to supply with that food.  Nobody has that duty unless they 
have wilfully prevented you from obtaining that food.  If you have your 
own piece of land you may claim the right to grow your own food upon it. 
  But that is all.

R

In news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142 Sarah
Houston  wrote: 

> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
> 
> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!

Wrong link.

http://www.a-human-right.com/

-- 
Bert Hyman	St. Paul, MN	bert@iphouse.com

"atec77"  wrote in message 
news:g41aos$qsf$1@aioe.org...
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> "atec77"  wrote in message 
>> news:g418at$h18$5@aioe.org...
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:6cilmhF3eq404U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:6cilgfF3hi70bU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:6ciladF3et8tqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in 
>>>>>>> message news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>>>>>>>> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge 
>>>>>>>> granted to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human 
>>>>>>>> right' does not extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic 
>>>>>>>> and wood (ie: a gun). It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>>>>>>> * Clean drinking water
>>>>>>>> * Food.
>>>>>>>> * Clothing.
>>>>>>>> * Housing.
>>>>>>>> * Medical care.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are 
>>>>>>>> prevented from access to some of the above items.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and ANY government
>>>>>>>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>>>>> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>>>>>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>>>>>>> You are a nut job.
>>>>>> **Lemme see if I have this right:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suggest that clean drinking water, food, shelter, clothing and 
>>>>>> medical services are fundamental human rights and you call _ME_ a 
>>>>>> "nut job"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
>>>> **Please explain how that can be accomplished without water, food, 
>>>> shelter and medical services. IOW: How will you hold your fucking gun, 
>>>> if you are dead?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> WHy don't you ask that African Dictator ,
>>
>> **I'm asking 'Gaz'. However, if you wish to get involved, I'll ask you:
>>
>> How will you hold your fucking gun, if you are dead?
>>
>>
>>   he has removed the rights to
>>> food shelter medical and no guns for anyone but his forces
>>
>> **Bullshit. The white farmers who fled their farms were armed. It seems 
>> their guns weren't much use against the sticks weilded by their 
>> attackers.
>  and the guns petrol bombs and other nastys ,

**The guns were no use against their attackers. THAT is my point. Learn to 
format your posts so they can be read.

 now remind me again why
> you are such a wanker
>> Fundamentally, just to remind you, this discussion is about human rights.
>  yup . right to self determine and defend  hence the guns involvement a 
> right which you would steal

**Bullshit. I support the rights of humans to the basic stuff. Ownership of 
a particular object is not a basic human right. Learn to format your posts 
so they can be read.

>> Ownership of a gun is not a human right.
>  defence is hence the gun bow stick or what ever

Ownership of a gun is not a basic human right. Learn to format your posts so 
they can be read.

>  It is a priveledge granted to US
>> citizens,
>  no its a right to defence and liberty written into the constitution hence 
> your proven yet again wanting
>  if they belong to an organised militia group.

**Incorrect. I sugest you read the US Constitution. The meaning is clear 
enough. The right to bear arms extends to members of  (well regulated) 
militia groups. Learn to format your posts so they can be read.

 Human rights are far
>> more basic than the ownership of a particular object.
>  but the right to own and use is not hence you are found wanting yet again

**Ownership of a gun is a prive granted to US citizens, if they belong to 
well regulated militia groups. It is not a basic right. Learn to format your 
posts so they can be read.


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:16:04 +1000 Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **Incorrect. I sugest you read the US Constitution. The meaning is clear 
> enough. The right to bear arms extends to members of  (well regulated) 
> militia groups. 
> 
The US Supreme Court says otherwise.  <http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?
id=2008-06-26_D91I2T2G4&show_article=1&cat=breaking>
-- 
Ernie B.

Anarchist:  Someone who doesn't need a policeman to point out the 
difference between right and wrong.  _U. Utah Phillips, taken from 
a remark by Ammon Hennecy.

"Polly the Parrot"  wrote in message 
news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site...
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>  wrote:
>
>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>
> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>
> Are the commies coming, or what?

From what I understand, one of the first things Hitler did was
confiscate all privately owned guns. One of the first tasks of
the Waffen-SS in Warsaw was similar: disarm all the Jews.

After what happened in New Orleans, USA after Katrina -- in
which corrupt cops were confiscating the weapons of law-abiding
citizens under "martial law" and allowing armed gangsters to take
over the streets, the cops will have to fill me w/bullets before I'll
be handing over my firearms.

The '91' riots in LA were similar, the LAPD ceded the streets to
the gangbangers allowing them free reign to murder, loot and
rob ANYONE.

You want my guns, you'll have to remove the ammo first, barrel
first.

"Polly the Parrot"  wrote in message 
news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site...
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>  wrote:
>
>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>
> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>
> Are the commies coming, or what?

The commies ?
    How about just the local goblins ?

There MOST basic reasons to be armed is self-defense
    If you are defenseless, you have no rights. Because any bully can come 
along and with the simple application of force.
Tyrannies against their own populations have caused the death of over 
140,000,000 people in the 20th Century
The killings are ALWAYS preceded by disarmament.
Being armed is no guarantee of success against bullies of any kind
    But it does improve your chances

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:33:54 -0700 (PDT), "Mr. Smartypants"
 wrote:

>On Jun 27, 8:00 am, Polly the Parrot 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>> > government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>
>> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>
>
>An armed population is the limiting factor on tyrannical government.
>Every dictatorship has first disarmed it's population upon taking
>power before clamping down on other rights taken for granted by a free
>people.

And what's more, they don't have much trouble doing it.  So much for
the limiting factor.

"üDougtÇ"  wrote in message 
news:EQW8k.19840$co7.1716@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "Polly the Parrot"  wrote in message 
> news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site...
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>
>> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>>
>> Are the commies coming, or what?
>
> From what I understand, one of the first things Hitler did was
> confiscate all privately owned guns.

**WRONG! Gun controls were introduced by the Weimar Republic. Hilter armed 
his people like no other leader in history. By the end of WWII children as 
young as 10 years were armed to the teeth.

 One of the first tasks of
> the Waffen-SS in Warsaw was similar: disarm all the Jews.

**Of course. The Jews were declared to be enemies of the state. Do you think 
that the Germans would have armed their enemies?


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Sarah Houston wrote:
> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
> 
> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government 
> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
> 

Sorry, It's a Privilege not a Human Right. And your Privilege can be
revoked if you abuse that right.

FACE  wrote in
news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com: 

> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )

Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this 
country where everybody worships Mill.

Gaz wrote:
> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
> news:6cilgfF3hi70bU1@mid.individual.net...
>   
>> "Gaz"  wrote in message 
>> news:6ciladF3et8tqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>     
>>> "Trevor Wilson"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6cikebF3fplolU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>       
>>>> "Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
>>>>         
>>>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>>>
>>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT
>>>>>           
>>>> **Wrong. As part of a "well regulated militia", it is a priviledge 
>>>> granted to US citizens who bleong to such militia groups. A 'human 
>>>> right' does not extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and 
>>>> wood (ie: a gun). It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>>> * Clean drinking water
>>>> * Food.
>>>> * Clothing.
>>>> * Housing.
>>>> * Medical care.
>>>>
>>>> I note that many US citizens are allowed to own guns, but are prevented 
>>>> from access to some of the above items.
>>>>
>>>> and ANY government
>>>>         
>>>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>>           
>>>> **You are entitled to your demented opinion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Trevor Wilson
>>>> www.rageaudio.com.au
>>>>         
>>> You are a nut job.
>>>       
>> **Lemme see if I have this right:
>>
>> I suggest that clean drinking water, food, shelter, clothing and medical 
>> services are fundamental human rights and you call _ME_ a "nut job"?
>>
>> Yeah, right.
>>
>>
>>     
>
> The right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness.
>
> Gaz 
>
>
>   

None of which require a gun

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:00:17 +1000, Polly the Parrot
 wrote:

|>On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
|> wrote:
|>
|>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
|>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
|>
|>Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
|>
|>Are the commies coming, or what?

	My ATX power supply just blew on the server.....that's a bitch, do I
need a power supply???? not really, I'll just use this backup computer.....

	Can I dial 911 for a new AOpen ATX power supply.....no, .....If I
get robbed and mugged w/o a cell phone, I can't dial 911 for that either....

	Even if I had a cell phone and got strong armed robbed, 911 won't
help either, even if their just a few blocks away....

	Guns can be dangerous to dick around with, just like installing a
new ATX power supply....

Polly the Parrot  wrote: 
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>  wrote:
> 
> > Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
> > government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
> 
> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
> 
> Are the commies coming, or what?
> 
It's great news!  Now even more Niggers and Muslims in the USA can have guns!  
Lots of guns to hunt whitey with!   

And gunloons think that their guns act like body armor and stop bullets!   
Even their thick layer of flab can't do that!   Not even when they're in 
their SUVs!

Mr. Smartypants  wrote: 
> Every dictatorship has first disarmed it's population upon taking
> power before clamping down on other rights taken for granted by a free
> people.
> 


Provide a credible cite please. 

It's a typical gunloon myth, told around the campfire to scare the children 
and other gullible gun loons.

Not even the Nazis banned guns.

www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

Jack Cane  wrote: 
> YES!    "The right to preserve your own life."
> 
I'm a nobody without my guns.  They practically define who I am because 
that's all I think about all day.

Our guns will enable us to take on the military and win, if Obama decides to 
pull shit like the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping on us like Bush 
has done.   Guns defeat tyranny, that's how we beat the British.  Bush is 
just lucky that we all love him and forgave him for trampling our rights.  We 
won't do that for Obama.

It can happen.  Look at how terribly wrong Iraq has gone for our troops.

"Sarah Houston"  wrote in message 
news:Xns9AC9A1A667381SntzldfrdSntzldfrdco@216.196.97.142...
> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>
> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government
> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!

Its also everyones human right to go about their lawful businress without 
being shot by some gangsta member of the NRA, Its the absolute right for 
every child to go to school without the inbred offspring of some half witted 
NRA member to come into school and shoot them. Its everyones right to self 
defence, especially from gun toting idiots.
>

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:45:37 -0500  'SaPeIsMa'
wrote this on uk.politics.misc:

>There MOST basic reasons to be armed is self-defense
>    If you are defenseless, you have no rights. Because any bully can come 
>along and with the simple application of force.
>Tyrannies against their own populations have caused the death of over 
>140,000,000 people in the 20th Century
>The killings are ALWAYS preceded by disarmament.
>Being armed is no guarantee of success against bullies of any kind
>    But it does improve your chances

Very well put. I doubt if many people realise that the prime
reason why govts ban guns, is not to stop people killing each
other because criminals will always get one, but to stop people
from killing the criminal politicians when they become tyrants.

Hence, the systematic disarming of citizens in many countries.
Without arms for self-defence, you have Zimbabwe.

-- 
socialism is like chronic heart disease ...
you may not know you suffer from it, but it'll kill you in the end.

"David Davis For Freedom":
http://www.daviddavisforfreedom.com/
...the battle against totalitarian 'database Britain'
under Gordon Brown's NooLab socialist government.

From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
08:11:00 +0000 (UTC) : 

>FACE  wrote in
>news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com: 
>
>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
>
>Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this 
>country where everybody worships Mill. 

Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
himself" -- John Stuart Mill 

I think he was foreshadowing Jason and his iPod............
'...  Suburban Jason, with his iPod, godlessness, and earring,
loves to live too much to die..."  Victor Davis Hanson

FACE

FACE wrote:
> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
> 08:11:00 +0000 (UTC) : 
> 
>> FACE  wrote in
>> news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com: 
>>
>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this 
>> country where everybody worships Mill. 
> 
> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
> 
> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
> himself" -- John Stuart Mill 

So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA 
or Israel?

-- 
BikeFan

In news:MPG.22ce90271a799b6f98ac75@news.individual.net snowman
 wrote: 

> Not even the Nazis banned guns.

Not to citizens, but then they simply revoked the citizenship of certain
undesirable elements. 

Then they murdered them.

-- 
Bert Hyman	St. Paul, MN	bert@iphouse.com

In news:MPG.22ce93b14634d0ad989e9b@nntp.aioe.org R. LaCasse
 wrote: 

> NNTP-Posting-Host: pk2YRcHzc04WcKZVxHEHnA.user.aioe.org
 
> I'm a nobody 

In good company at aioe.org.

-- 
Bert Hyman	St. Paul, MN	bert@iphouse.com

From  BikeFan <mistontheloch!@yahoo.co.uk>, in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
Jun 2008 08:34:43 -0400 : 

>FACE wrote:
>> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
>> 08:11:00 +0000 (UTC) : 
>> 
>>> FACE  wrote in
>>> news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com: 
>>>
>>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
>>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
>>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
>>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this 
>>> country where everybody worships Mill. 
>> 
>> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
>> 
>> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
>> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
>> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
>> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
>> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
>> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
>> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
>> himself" -- John Stuart Mill 
>
>So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA 
>or Israel?

Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
refrigerator slowly evaporates?

FACE

FACE wrote:
> From  BikeFan <mistontheloch!@yahoo.co.uk>, in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
> Jun 2008 08:34:43 -0400 : 
> 
>> FACE wrote:
>>> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
>>> 08:11:00 +0000 (UTC) : 
>>>
>>>> FACE  wrote in
>>>> news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com: 
>>>>
>>>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
>>>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
>>>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
>>>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this 
>>>> country where everybody worships Mill. 
>>> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
>>>
>>> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
>>> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
>>> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
>>> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
>>> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
>>> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
>>> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
>>> himself" -- John Stuart Mill 
>> So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA 
>> or Israel?
> 
> Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
> refrigerator slowly evaporates?

ROTFL - is that "cannot" or "will not" answer?
You rat, we should deport you.

-- 
BikeFan

From  BikeFan <mistontheloch!@yahoo.co.uk>, in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
Jun 2008 09:40:45 -0400 : 

>FACE wrote:
>> From  BikeFan <mistontheloch!@yahoo.co.uk>, in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
>> Jun 2008 08:34:43 -0400 : 
>> 
>>> FACE wrote:
>>>> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
>>>> 08:11:00 +0000 (UTC) : 
>>>>
>>>>> FACE  wrote in
>>>>> news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com: 
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
>>>>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
>>>>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
>>>>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this 
>>>>> country where everybody worships Mill. 
>>>> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
>>>>
>>>> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
>>>> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
>>>> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
>>>> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
>>>> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
>>>> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
>>>> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
>>>> himself" -- John Stuart Mill 
>>> So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA 
>>> or Israel?
>> 
>> Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
>> refrigerator slowly evaporates?
>
>ROTFL - is that "cannot" or "will not" answer?
>You rat, we should deport you.

Since I am not an israeli, my reply was an illustration that your question
was an irrelevancy.

Quick definitions (patriotic)

# adjective:   inspired by love for your country

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:50:11 -0700, "üDougtÇ"  wrote:

>"Polly the Parrot"  wrote in message 
>news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site...
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>
>> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>>
>> Are the commies coming, or what?
>
>From what I understand, one of the first things Hitler did was
>confiscate all privately owned guns. 

You understand incorrectly.  The first thing Hitler did was burn the
Reichstag in 1933.  Germany had been a dictatorship for five years
before Hitler introduced a gun control measure and it did not
confiscate all privately owned guns.

FACE wrote:
> From  BikeFan <mistontheloch!@yahoo.co.uk>, in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
> Jun 2008 09:40:45 -0400 : 
> 
>> FACE wrote:
>>> From  BikeFan <mistontheloch!@yahoo.co.uk>, in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
>>> Jun 2008 08:34:43 -0400 : 
>>>
>>>> FACE wrote:
>>>>> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
>>>>> 08:11:00 +0000 (UTC) : 
>>>>>
>>>>>> FACE  wrote in
>>>>>> news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com: 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
>>>>>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
>>>>>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
>>>>>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this 
>>>>>> country where everybody worships Mill. 
>>>>> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
>>>>>
>>>>> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
>>>>> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
>>>>> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
>>>>> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
>>>>> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
>>>>> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
>>>>> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
>>>>> himself" -- John Stuart Mill 
>>>> So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA 
>>>> or Israel?
>>> Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
>>> refrigerator slowly evaporates?
>> ROTFL - is that "cannot" or "will not" answer?
>> You rat, we should deport you.
> 
> Since I am not an israeli, my reply was an illustration that your question
> was an irrelevancy.

Yet no direct yes or no, right? You couldn't do that because you have a 
hidden agenda right? Your friends know what that is, but you will not 
share that publicly because we'll all know what a skunk you are.

-- 
BikeFan

From  aracari , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
Jun 2008 12:42:10 +0100 : 

>
>On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:45:37 -0500  'SaPeIsMa'
>wrote this on uk.politics.misc:
>
>>There MOST basic reasons to be armed is self-defense
>>    If you are defenseless, you have no rights. Because any bully can come 
>>along and with the simple application of force.
>>Tyrannies against their own populations have caused the death of over 
>>140,000,000 people in the 20th Century
>>The killings are ALWAYS preceded by disarmament.
>>Being armed is no guarantee of success against bullies of any kind
>>    But it does improve your chances
>
>Very well put. I doubt if many people realise that the prime
>reason why govts ban guns, is not to stop people killing each
>other because criminals will always get one, but to stop people
>from killing the criminal politicians when they become tyrants.
>
>Hence, the systematic disarming of citizens in many countries.
>Without arms for self-defence, you have Zimbabwe.

I am curious.  In your 1689 Declaration of Rights. there is a particular
right that all citizens, who are protestants, will be allowed weapons for
their own defense, as allowed by law.  (I understand that the "as allowed by
law" was not in the first draft and was added the night before being
presented to William of Orange, but that's another matter)  As to "who are
protestants" I know why it was there but I have no comment, perhaps you or
James II or someone else does though......

But, getting back to my original query, is the spirit of this defined
"right" never brought up?  Has it ever been?

It seems that every 'defensive" weapon is also considered, and rightly if
questionably, a *possible* offensive weapon and is forbidden by law, making
a bit of a clever end-run around the "right".......

(If you guys can call things "own goals", I can call others an "end-run".)

FACE

From  BikeFan <mistontheloch!@yahoo.co.uk>, in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
Jun 2008 12:40:01 -0400 : 

>> Since I am not an israeli, my reply was an illustration that your question
>> was an irrelevancy.
>
>Yet no direct yes or no, right? You couldn't do that because you have a 
>hidden agenda right? Your friends know what that is, but you will not 
>share that publicly because we'll all know what a skunk you are.

You do realize that you are a joke, right?

"David Johnston"  wrote in message 
news:ud3a64pvn3cgmvbbjnkegn13h84tq3tlqt@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:50:11 -0700, "üDougtÇ"  wrote:
>
>>"Polly the Parrot"  wrote in message
>>news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site...
>>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>>>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>
>>> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>>>
>>> Are the commies coming, or what?
>>
>>From what I understand, one of the first things Hitler did was
>>confiscate all privately owned guns.
>
> You understand incorrectly.  The first thing Hitler did was burn the
> Reichstag in 1933.  Germany had been a dictatorship for five years
> before Hitler introduced a gun control measure and it did not
> confiscate all privately owned guns.

I did say first things. I'll bet it confiscated all privately owned guns
for the Juden though didn't it?

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:26:12 -0700, "üDougtÇ"  wrote:

>"David Johnston"  wrote in message 
>news:ud3a64pvn3cgmvbbjnkegn13h84tq3tlqt@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:50:11 -0700, "üDougtÇ"  wrote:
>>
>>>"Polly the Parrot"  wrote in message
>>>news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site...
>>>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>>>>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>>>>
>>>> Are the commies coming, or what?
>>>
>>>From what I understand, one of the first things Hitler did was
>>>confiscate all privately owned guns.
>>
>> You understand incorrectly.  The first thing Hitler did was burn the
>> Reichstag in 1933.  Germany had been a dictatorship for five years
>> before Hitler introduced a gun control measure and it did not
>> confiscate all privately owned guns.
>
>I did say first things. I'll bet it confiscated all privately owned guns
>for the Juden though didn't it? 

They confiscated all Jewish-owned property guns included.  

>

"üDougtÇ"  wrote in message 
news:fbb9k.6886$cW3.2481@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "David Johnston"  wrote in message 
> news:ud3a64pvn3cgmvbbjnkegn13h84tq3tlqt@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:50:11 -0700, "üDougtÇ"  wrote:
>>
>>>"Polly the Parrot"  wrote in message
>>>news:20080627080017.72bf0bac@linux-k6os.site...
>>>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
>>>>> government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>>>>
>>>> Are the commies coming, or what?
>>>
>>>From what I understand, one of the first things Hitler did was
>>>confiscate all privately owned guns.
>>
>> You understand incorrectly.  The first thing Hitler did was burn the
>> Reichstag in 1933.  Germany had been a dictatorship for five years
>> before Hitler introduced a gun control measure and it did not
>> confiscate all privately owned guns.
>
> I did say first things.

**Nope. You said:

"From what I understand, one of the first things Hitler did was confiscate 
all privately owned guns."

Now, I'll say again:

Gun controls were introduced by the Weimar Republic, NOT Hitler. Hitler, in 
fact, relaxed those gun controls. Hitler, by the end of the war, had armed 
children. Hitler armed his people like no other leader.


 I'll bet it confiscated all privately owned guns
> for the Juden though didn't it?

**The Jews were declared enemies of the state. Do you imagine that the US 
government would arm those held in G'tmo, for instance?


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Roger Dewhurst"  wrote in message 
news:g41a1s$5dr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>  A 'human right' does not
>> extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood (ie: a gun). 
>> It does, however, extend to such things as:
>> * Clean drinking water
>> * Food.
>> * Clothing.
>> * Housing.
>> * Medical care.
>>
>
> If you claim that the items you have listed above are human rights you 
> have to claim also that someone else has a duty to supply them.

**No, I do not. At least in as much as the OP claimed that owning guns is a 
human right.

>
> I fact no human has any right to any material thing except in so far as he 
> can buy it, provide it for himself or has entered into a contract with 
> others to supply it for him.

**Like guns.

>
> If there are human rights they must apply only to intangibles such as 
> justice and freedom.

**Yep. You can whack them on my list too.

  Freedom of course includes the freedom to lawfully
> obtain the items you have listed together with many other things, 
> including guns, which we may wish to have.

**Nope. Ownership of guns is a privilege, not a right. Same as ownership of 
nuclear weapons, biological weapons, tanks and other stuff which is 
completely unnecessary in modern life.


-- 
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

On Jun 28, 8:51 am, "Trevor Wilson"
 wrote:

> >  A 'human right' does not
> >> extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood (ie: a gun).
> >> It does, however, extend to such things as:
> >> * Clean drinking water
> >> * Food.
> >> * Clothing.
> >> * Housing.
> >> * Medical care.

So, according to our favourite anti-gun zealot, "freedom of speech" is
not a human right, "freedom of association" is not a human right,
"freedom of association" is not  a human right.

Why am i not surprised.

John-Melb wrote:
> On Jun 28, 8:51 am, "Trevor Wilson"
>  wrote:
> 
>>>  A 'human right' does not
>>>> extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood (ie: a gun).
>>>> It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>>> * Clean drinking water
>>>> * Food.
>>>> * Clothing.
>>>> * Housing.
>>>> * Medical care.
> 
> So, according to our favourite anti-gun zealot, "freedom of speech" is
> not a human right, "freedom of association" is not a human right,
> "freedom of association" is not  a human right.
> 
> Why am i not surprised.

'Rights' are social contracts brokered by power groups.

-- 
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
Remote Viewing classes in London

On 27 Juni, 15:40, BikeFan  wrote:
> FACE wrote:
> > From  BikeFan , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
> > Jun 2008 08:34:43 -0400 :
>
> >> FACE wrote:
> >>> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
> >>> 08:11:00 퍍 (UTC) :
>
> >>>> FACE  wrote in
> >>>>news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com:
>
> >>>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
> >>>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society".> >>>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
> >>>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this
> >>>> country where everybody worships Mill.
> >>> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
>
> >>> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
> >>> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
> >>> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
> >>> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
> >>> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
> >>> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
> >>> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
> >>> himself" -- John Stuart Mill
> >> So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA
> >> or Israel?
>
> > Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
> > refrigerator slowly evaporates?
>
> ROTFL - is that "cannot" or "will not" answer?
> You rat, we should deport you.

You're such an amusing little mad, psychotic bigot, bikey.
That's what makes toying with you such fun. That, and your utter
stupidity.



>
> --
> BikeFan

Mr. Smartypants  wrote:

> An armed population is the limiting factor on tyrannical government.

Yeah...it's working beautifully in Iraq....

Rifty

-- 
riftynet - put a dot after rifty

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:27:43 +1000, son of a bitch
 wrote:

|>Sarah Houston wrote:
|>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
|>> 
|>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government 
|>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
|>> 
|>
|>Sorry, It's a Privilege not a Human Right. And your Privilege can be
|>revoked if you abuse that right.

	Or if they just wanna provoke you, rob you, etc... on their infamous
fishing trips....they can do that if they have more guns than you, otherwise
there is Justice....

`	Don;t tell me they can't, when they already have all over the place,
they have hordes of dirty tricks, and gloat at there homo shop about how you
fell for it, and got ripped off or snuffed....

	It's pretty hard to charge a cop with armed robbery since that's all
they are about.........it's like charging an African for having a
foreskin.....
-- 
Triad Productions-Fantalla©~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
WWWeb>>  http://boblacasse.150m. com

Sarah Houston  wrote:

> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
> 
> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government
> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!

If guns are a human right then it is also a human right for every
government of any country who wants them to have nuclear weapons, no
questions asked.

You people who only feel tough when you have a firearm in your pocket
amuse me.  You make up all sorts of ridiculous excuses to carry around
items that cause way more calamities than they ever resolve, and it's
all because your only answer to conflict is an adolescent confidence in
lethal violence, never to get to the root cause of the problem.

Rifty
-- 
riftynet - put a dot after rifty

parris_k@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 27 Juni, 15:40, BikeFan  wrote:
>> FACE wrote:
>>> From  BikeFan , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
>>> Jun 2008 08:34:43 -0400 :
>>>> FACE wrote:
>>>>> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
>>>>> 08:11:00 +0000 (UTC) :
>>>>>> FACE  wrote in
>>>>>> news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com:
>>>>>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is
>>>>>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"..
>>>>>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
>>>>>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this
>>>>>> country where everybody worships Mill.
>>>>> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
>>>>> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
>>>>> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
>>>>> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
>>>>> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
>>>>> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
>>>>> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
>>>>> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
>>>>> himself" -- John Stuart Mill
>>>> So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA
>>>> or Israel?
>>> Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
>>> refrigerator slowly evaporates?
>> ROTFL - is that "cannot" or "will not" answer?
>> You rat, we should deport you.
> 
> You're such an amusing little mad, psychotic bigot, bikey.
> That's what makes toying with you such fun. That, and your utter
> stupidity.

Yes, well, you're sick and can't help it.

-- 
BikeFan

"Rifty"  wrote in message news:1ijar3f.1kh2ivk1gsoxzoN%rifty@tpg.com.au...
> Sarah Houston  wrote:
>
>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>
>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government
>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>
> If guns are a human right then it is also a human right for every
> government of any country who wants them to have nuclear weapons, no
> questions asked.

  Free guns for poor preschoolers anyone?

> You people who only feel tough when you have a firearm in your pocket
> amuse me.  You make up all sorts of ridiculous excuses to carry around
> items that cause way more calamities than they ever resolve, and it's
> all because your only answer to conflict is an adolescent confidence in
> lethal violence, never to get to the root cause of the problem.

  It is in the interests of the manufacturers to support both the pro and anti gun
lobbies. It increases the fear of those who buy and removes weapons,
which would otherwise last a very long time. Check out who owns the
manufacturers and where the lobbies get their funds.
  The antityrrany mechanism has only worked once in the last 240 years,
and then only because the tyrrany was distracted and led by drug addled madmen.
Any overthrows lately? Regular spontaneous rebellions?
Either everyone is happy or most are too gutless to do anything even with the guns.

To truly support a cause you have to be prepared to be bodycount rather than hero.

"son of a bitch"  wrote in message 
news:4864966f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Sarah Houston wrote:
>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>
>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government 
>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>
>
> Sorry, It's a Privilege not a Human Right. And your Privilege can be
> revoked if you abuse that right.

And naturally, you can back up that claim ?

"FACE"  wrote in message 
news:5mp9641kjq78kp62gc8778iu5jr5a5kkqh@4ax.com...
> >
> Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
> refrigerator slowly evaporates?
>

That depends on the refrigerator
The ones that self-defrost actually go through a warming cycle to get rid of 
the built-up ice
The freezers that do NOT self-defrost need to be cleaned out manually

"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax"  wrote in message 
news:6clol0F3h777kU1@mid.individual.net...
> John-Melb wrote:
>> On Jun 28, 8:51 am, "Trevor Wilson"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>>  A 'human right' does not
>>>>> extend to the ownership of a lump of metal, plastic and wood (ie: a 
>>>>> gun).
>>>>> It does, however, extend to such things as:
>>>>> * Clean drinking water
>>>>> * Food.
>>>>> * Clothing.
>>>>> * Housing.
>>>>> * Medical care.
>>
>> So, according to our favourite anti-gun zealot, "freedom of speech" is
>> not a human right, "freedom of association" is not a human right,
>> "freedom of association" is not  a human right.
>>
>> Why am i not surprised.
>
> 'Rights' are social contracts brokered by power groups.
>

Which of those alleged "rights" was brokered for you ?
    The right to willful ignorance ?

"snowman"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22ce90271a799b6f98ac75@news.individual.net...
> Mr. Smartypants  wrote:
>> Every dictatorship has first disarmed it's population upon taking
>> power before clamping down on other rights taken for granted by a free
>> people.
>>
>
>
> Provide a credible cite please.
>
> It's a typical gunloon myth, told around the campfire to scare the 
> children
> and other gullible gun loons.
>
> Not even the Nazis banned guns.
>
> www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

They banned the Jews from being armed
Oh wait, that's just one of those minor details lost in the blizzard of 
ignorance that you are.

"Rifty"  wrote in message 
news:1ijar3f.1kh2ivk1gsoxzoN%rifty@tpg.com.au...
> Sarah Houston  wrote:
>
>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>
>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government
>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>
> If guns are a human right then it is also a human right for every
> government of any country who wants them to have nuclear weapons, no
> questions asked.
>

Well first of all
    The phrase "guns are a human right" is TOTALLY BOGUS
The right to self-defense IS a "human right'
Therefore there is also a right to the BEST TOOL for self-defense

I don't see a nuclear weapon as a very effective weapon for "self-defense"
    Do you ?
If you are stupid enough to believe it is, feel free to explain it to us


> You people who only feel tough when you have a firearm in your pocket
> amuse me.  You make up all sorts of ridiculous excuses to carry around
> items that cause way more calamities than they ever resolve, and it's
> all because your only answer to conflict is an adolescent confidence in
> lethal violence, never to get to the root cause of the problem.
>

REAL stupidity is making stupid projections on other people out of ignorance
Why do you need to demonstrate to the world how deeply stupid and ignorant 
you are ?
    Would it not be wiser to keep it a secret ?

On Jun 27, 8:33 am, "Mr. Smartypants"  wrote:
> On Jun 27, 8:00 am, Polly the Parrot 
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
>
> >  wrote:
> > > Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
> > > government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>
> > Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
>
> An armed population is the limiting factor on tyrannical government.
> Every dictatorship has first disarmed it's population upon taking
> power before clamping down on other rights taken for granted by a free
> people.


An armed bunch of hayseeds with weapons is no match for the military
you uneducated dolt.

SaPeIsMa  wrote:

> "Rifty"  wrote in message 
> news:1ijar3f.1kh2ivk1gsoxzoN%rifty@tpg.com.au...
> > Sarah Houston  wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
> >>
> >> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government
> >> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
> >
> > If guns are a human right then it is also a human right for every
> > government of any country who wants them to have nuclear weapons, no
> > questions asked.
> >
> 
> Well first of all
>     The phrase "guns are a human right" is TOTALLY BOGUS
> The right to self-defense IS a "human right'

So you are arguing a different proposition altogether. What are you
doing in this debate then? Your effective contribution ends here.

> Therefore there is also a right to the BEST TOOL for self-defense
> 
> I don't see a nuclear weapon as a very effective weapon for "self-defense"
>     Do you ?

If a country's defence is the self-defence of its citizens, then some,
including every one of your governments since 1945, would argue that it
can be an effective weapon of self-defence.

> If you are stupid enough 

Obviously this is a comment based on, in your words, a "stupid
projection... on other people out of ignorance". Touché, mon brave....

> to believe it is, feel free to explain it to us

I have just explained it in language even you can understand. Whether
you *will* is another matter....

Rifty
-- 
riftynet - put a dot after rifty

SaPeIsMa  wrote:

> "son of a bitch"  wrote in message 
> news:4864966f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> > Sarah Houston wrote:
> >> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
> >>
> >> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government
> >> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
> >>
> >
> > Sorry, It's a Privilege not a Human Right. And your Privilege can be
> > revoked if you abuse that right.
> 
> And naturally, you can back up that claim ?

In circumstances where the abuse breaks the law, of course s/he can,
though it's practically axiomatic and would need 'backing' to convince
only an unusually stupid person. There are countless people who have
been penalised for that, especially ones who use their weapons in
robberies and assault and get caught.

Rifty
 
-- 
riftynet - put a dot after rifty

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:54:02 -0700 (PDT), bringyagrogalong
 wrote:

|>On Jun 27, 8:33 am, "Mr. Smartypants"  wrote:
|>> On Jun 27, 8:00 am, Polly the Parrot 
|>> wrote:
|>>
|>> > On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:53:26 -0500 Sarah Houston
|>>
|>> >  wrote:
|>> > > Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY
|>> > > government that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
|>>
|>> > Can you explain why you feel the need to own guns is so essential?
|>>
|>> An armed population is the limiting factor on tyrannical government.
|>> Every dictatorship has first disarmed it's population upon taking
|>> power before clamping down on other rights taken for granted by a free
|>> people.
|>
|>
|>An armed bunch of hayseeds with weapons is no match for the military
|>you uneducated dolt.
|>

	You may be right with Brian Ward, but not with Randy Weaver/Ruby
Ridge, 300men, Satellite reconnaissance, 1/2 million dollar expense ++++
.....to prove a point that THEY are dangerous to everyone.... 

	You watch the propaganda films of the foreign troops who have never
fought in a trench, almost died for a cup of coffee, and were crawling with
lice in their puttys......

	What you have today is a bunch of reconnaissance platoons,
regiments, shooting at pretty much nothing, and are basically on a camping
trip, except for their portable TVs to watch the sports from their
barracks... 
-- 
Triad Productions-Fantalla©~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
WWWeb>>  http://boblacasse.150m. com

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:15:05 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" 
wrote:

>
>"son of a bitch"  wrote in message 
>news:4864966f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> Sarah Houston wrote:
>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>
>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government 
>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, It's a Privilege not a Human Right. And your Privilege can be
>> revoked if you abuse that right.
>
>And naturally, you can back up that claim ?


Hell, we're told a driver's license is a 'privilege', not a 'right'.
I've always found that a little over the top.

On 29 Juni, 04:57, BikeFan  wrote:
> parri...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On 27 Juni, 15:40, BikeFan  wrote:
> >> FACE wrote:
> >>> From  BikeFan , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27
> >>> Jun 2008 08:34:43 -0400 :
> >>>> FACE wrote:
> >>>>> From  Dr Quite , in uk.politics.misc on Fri, 27 Jun 2008
> >>>>> 08:11:00 퍍 (UTC) :
> >>>>>> FACE  wrote in
> >>>>>>news:gm8864p5c4o3274fsn3l2omsbvj8coi6ag@4ax.com:
> >>>>>>> "Self defence is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is> >>>>>>> not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the laws of society"> >>>>>>> ( Sir William Blackstone  1765 )
> >>>>>> Good fellah, Blackstone. He seems to have been forgotten, at least in this
> >>>>>> country where everybody worships Mill.
> >>>>> Ah yes.  My favorite quote from the great liberal John Mill:
> >>>>> "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The
> >>>>> decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling
> >>>>> which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The
> >>>>> person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing
> >>>>> which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
> >>>>> miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
> >>>>> made and kept so by the exertions of better men than
> >>>>> himself" -- John Stuart Mill
> >>>> So which country would you defend with your life if you had to, the USA
> >>>> or Israel?
> >>> Have you ever noticed that hard frozen ice in the freezer unit of the
> >>> refrigerator slowly evaporates?
> >> ROTFL - is that "cannot" or "will not" answer?
> >> You rat, we should deport you.
>
> > You're such an amusing little mad, psychotic bigot, bikey.
> > That's what makes toying with you such fun. That, and your utter
> > stupidity.
>
> Yes, well, you're sick and can't help it.

Nope, I just look that way to a mental deficient like you. No doubt
everyone else sane does too.
Any news on that magical stealth radar system you claim Iran posesses?
*snigger*





>
> --
> BikeFan- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -

in message news:50dh645ftfa6mpsn1deot934c241da81gd@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:15:05 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"son of a bitch"  wrote in message
>>news:4864966f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>> Sarah Houston wrote:
>>>> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>>>>
>>>> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY government
>>>> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, It's a Privilege not a Human Right. And your Privilege can be
>>> revoked if you abuse that right.
>>
>>And naturally, you can back up that claim ?
>
>"E. Barry Bruyea"  wrote:
> Hell, we're told a driver's license is a 'privilege', not a 'right'.
> I've always found that a little over the top.
>

I often wonder if a smart lawyer could institute a charter challenge on that 
little gem. After all it is a contravention of your right to freedom of 
movement.
Then again our charters is so riddled with mealy mouthed wording such as "a 
reasonable infringement". and "for the common good". that it renders the 
charter to the status of a bird cage liner and not worth the paper it is 
written on.

-- 
Cheers!
Alex.C
There are twelve million sheep in Ontario.
Problem is nine million of them think they are people.

Alex Cunningham wrote:

>
> >
> >"E. Barry Bruyea"  wrote:
> > Hell, we're told a driver's license is a 'privilege', not a 'right'.
> > I've always found that a little over the top.
> >
>
> I often wonder if a smart lawyer could institute a charter challenge on that
> little gem. After all it is a contravention of your right to freedom of
> movement.
> Then again our charters is so riddled with mealy mouthed wording such as "a
> reasonable infringement". and "for the common good". that it renders the
> charter to the status of a bird cage liner and not worth the paper it is
> written on.

A smart lawyer would realize that it is not a contravention of your freedom of
movement. There are other modes of travel.  There is nothing mealy mouthed about
the common good.

"Rifty"  wrote in message 
news:1ijcp0h.12i9pf71xqyms6N%rifty@tpg.com.au...
> SaPeIsMa  wrote:
>
>> "son of a bitch"  wrote in message
>> news:4864966f$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> > Sarah Houston wrote:
>> >> http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-06-26-voa36.cfm
>> >>
>> >> Like we keep telling you guys, this is a HUMAN RIGHT and ANY 
>> >> government
>> >> that infringes it is a TYRANNY to the extent that it does!
>> >>
>> >
>> > Sorry, It's a Privilege not a Human Right. And your Privilege can be
>> > revoked if you abuse that right.
>>
>> And naturally, you can back up that claim ?
>
> In circumstances where the abuse breaks the law, of course s/he can,
> though it's practically axiomatic and would need 'backing' to convince
> only an unu