On Fri, 22 Aug 2008, Steve Wallis wrote:

> On 21 Aug, 22:49, Whata Fool  wrote:
>>       No, where you really differ is in advertising socialism, most
>> people favor viable alternate energy and energy efficient devices,
>
> People might not favour renewable forms of energy if they have to pay
> more for it. And politicians sceptical of global warming (or perhaps
> because they are funded by fossil fuel companies) might not prioritise
> investment into such forms of energy, preferring to continue the
> divide-and-rule agenda, trying to get working and middle class people
> to blame each other for environmental problems...

Or do both. Whether they are skeptical of global warming or not.

>
>> but only a percent or so of the US population even considers socialism
>> as acceptable.
>
> I've heard that most people in the USA associate the word "socialism"
> with the Stalinist states that collapsed in the USSR and Eastern
> Europe. Very few leftists advocate that form of society any more. If
> you ask people do they want freedom or socialism, most people would
> say "freedom". I would say both.

I think it is not only in the USA that people associate the word 
"socialism" with the old Stalinist states. This is only natural, as 
these are the only places where capitalism was ever abolished. 
"Socialism" in England etc. has always been a bad joke. Explaining 
what went wrong in the Russian Revolution, so that next time around 
the same mistakes will not be repeated, is a prime task of radicals 
right now.

However, meanwhile "democracy" and "freedom" have been steadily 
obtaining, with the aid among others of the Bush people, as bad a 
reputation as the word "socialism." As in Russia, where "democracy" 
under Yeltsin meant a boot stamping on a human face temporarily, 
instead of forever.

True freedom cannot be obtained except through socialist revolution.

>..
> But do you really have "freedom" when the choice is between two very
> similar capitalist political parties, an extremely undemocratic
> electoral system, electoral fraud that kept Gore and Kerry out of
> power (see my group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/us-electoral-fraud)
> and big business control of the media?

It is the choice between Pepsi and Coke. Customers have the freedom to 
buy whatever product they want, if they have the money. Voting is 
still free however.

>
> With the horrendous economic problems of the worldwide capitalist
> economic system (massive food and fuel price increases, collapsing
> house prices, companies going bust as a result of the credit crunch),
> more people can be won to socialist economic policies.

Clearly. Back in the '90s, huge numbers of people believed that 
capitalism, unlike socialism, actually works. Those who continue to 
believe this are not reading the newspapers.

>
> I advocate more moderate socialist policies than Trotskyism, which are
> winning mass support in Latin America. Arguing that socialism means
> you can't return to capitalist "freedom" (i.e. the freedom to exploit
> workers) and the alleged unpopularity of socialism is contradicted by
> the recent referendum in Bolivia, won with over 67% of the vote by Evo
> Morales, who has nationalised energy, mining and telecommunications
> companies.
>

Socialism is more popular in Latin America than elsewhere because 
Cuba, unlike the Soviet Union, has not collapsed, and is functioning 
for the average person better than most Latin American states. Without 
the Cuban example, there would be none of this.

But there is basically no difference between the Cuban system and the 
old Soviet system.

-jh-