http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study.pdf

"Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
Use"

Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.

Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my hippocampi
have been so compromised over the years?

On Oct 8, 11:22 am, "Dr. Ernst Primer (again)" 
wrote:
> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study...
>
> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
> Use"
>
> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
>
> Any comments?

* Sample size is small.
* Correlation is not causation.
* 5 joints a day for 10 years?! Imagine the effects of a comparable
level of alcohol use.

Dr. Ernst Primer (again) wrote:
> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study.pdf
> 
> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
> Use"
> 
> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
> 
> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my hippocampi
> have been so compromised over the years?

	First the people in question because of alcohol and tobacco use 
should
not be classed as simply heavy cannabis users.  I would say 
multiple drug
abusers.  Maybe the researchers work for the alcohol or tobacco 
industries.

	Secondly the pre-use IQs were estimated which is folly.  Didn't the
researchers have access to school records?  Maybe they were not 
credible
enough to be granted such access.

	While I am sure the brain parts in question were as reported the
people were using alcohol.  How can such a study ascertain the cause
of the decrease in extent of cannabinoid receptors?  Flawed study 
IMHO.

	Last I heard age itself decreases the volume of the brain so
I doubt much utility will be derived from this study aside from 
political
purposes.

	Of course I am only an old and very tired nurse so this is all IMHO.

	later
	bliss

Dr. Ernst Primer (again) wrote:
> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study.pdf
> 
> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
> Use"
> 
> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
> 
> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my hippocampi
> have been so compromised over the years?

I did notice they did not make any attempt to show who funded this piece 
of editorial crap. If it was government funded, and that is almost 
certain because it was done at colorado.*edu*.
If they don't give the government what they want they don't get funded 
again.
Simple, huh?

Bill Baka

M_P wrote:
> On Oct 8, 11:22 am, "Dr. Ernst Primer (again)" 
> wrote:
>> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study...
>>
>> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
>> Use"
>>
>> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
>> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
>> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
>> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
>>
>> Any comments?
> 
> * Sample size is small.
> * Correlation is not causation.
> * 5 joints a day for 10 years?! Imagine the effects of a comparable
> level of alcohol use.

5 joints a day for 10 years??? Did these clowns even have jobs?
1/2 a joint or less puts me to sleep at night, and by this definition I 
am barely a user. 5 joints a day just means they are smoking crap weed 
and suffering from long term exposure to CO. That is the equivalent of a 
pack of cigarettes per day or a case of beer a day.
Write this one off as a crap/BS study.
I wonder how well off the doctor is for playing patsy.
Bill Baka

B Sellers wrote:
> Dr. Ernst Primer (again) wrote:
>> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study.pdf
>>
>> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
>> Use"
>>
>> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
>> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
>> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
>> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
>>
>> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my hippocampi
>> have been so compromised over the years?
> 
>     First the people in question because of alcohol and tobacco use should
> not be classed as simply heavy cannabis users.  I would say multiple drug
> abusers.  Maybe the researchers work for the alcohol or tobacco industries.

They did say heavy pot smokers, and they probably were paid by the 
alcohol or tobacco industries, or the government, which will *never* 
admit to having screwed up.
> 
>     Secondly the pre-use IQs were estimated which is folly.  Didn't the
> researchers have access to school records?  Maybe they were not credible
> enough to be granted such access.

Using smokers and drinkers just violated any validity.
> 
>     While I am sure the brain parts in question were as reported the
> people were using alcohol.  How can such a study ascertain the cause
> of the decrease in extent of cannabinoid receptors?  Flawed study IMHO.

Joke study, really.
> 
>     Last I heard age itself decreases the volume of the brain so
> I doubt much utility will be derived from this study aside from political
> purposes.

Actually, I think it is lack of use of the brain that causes the 
shrinkage. Brain size development happens from birth up to the late 
teens and the only way to shrink it is from lack of use. It sounds like 
this study was done on a bunch of career losers. I don't smoke a joint 
before work, at lunch time or anytime short of bedtime.
> 
>     Of course I am only an old and very tired nurse so this is all IMHO.
> 
>     later
>     bliss

They are taking career stoners as the example, so isn't it obvious what 
they wanted the outcome to be?

Bill Baka

Dr. Ernst Primer wrote:
> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study...
>
> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
> Use"

Interesting document, and a reasonable attempt to quantify
something that's long been a topic for speculation.  THC is
a chemical that affects brain chemistry, and it shouldn't be
a surprise that over long exposure it can affect the structure
of the brain itself.

That having been said, I think the legalization debate needs to
focus on comparative study - how these results stack up vs
not just legal toxins like alcohol and nicotine, but also things
like caffeine and refined sugar which are themselves known
to affect brain chemistry, and which we also know that young
Americans are being exposed to every time they drink a can
of soda.

> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
>
> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my hippocampi
> have been so compromised over the years?

What they did in this study was quantify differing sizes of a
particular
part of the subjects' brains.  Like all scientific inquiry it poses
more
questions than it answers.

--
Brother Nate
bronate@gmail.com
Moral Compass

Brother Nate wrote:
> Dr. Ernst Primer wrote:
>> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study...
>>
>> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
>> Use"
> 
> Interesting document, and a reasonable attempt to quantify
> something that's long been a topic for speculation.  THC is
> a chemical that affects brain chemistry, and it shouldn't be
> a surprise that over long exposure it can affect the structure
> of the brain itself.
> 
> That having been said, I think the legalization debate needs to
> focus on comparative study - how these results stack up vs
> not just legal toxins like alcohol and nicotine, but also things
> like caffeine and refined sugar which are themselves known
> to affect brain chemistry, and which we also know that young
> Americans are being exposed to every time they drink a can
> of soda.
> 
>> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
>> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
>> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
>> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
>>
>> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my hippocampi
>> have been so compromised over the years?
> 
> What they did in this study was quantify differing sizes of a
> particular
> part of the subjects' brains.  Like all scientific inquiry it poses
> more
> questions than it answers.
> 
> --
> Brother Nate
> bronate@gmail.com
> Moral Compass

A. *DON'T F0CKING CROSS POST*
B. Brains GROW until about 18 to 23 years old, they do not shrink from 
smoking pot. They only shrink from older age and lack of use. The brain 
is like a muscle and will atrophy from lack of use and, dare I say it, 
Too much mind numbing television.
C. Pure THC does not hurt the brain anywhere near as much as the Carbon 
Monoxide from cigarettes or the internal circulation of Alcohol.
D. The *ONLY* reason pot is illegal is thanks to William Randolph Hearst 
making phony headlines in 1914 until WW one broke out and he had some 
real news to write about.
E. Prohibition kept him busy until the stock market crash in 1929.
F. In the 1930's he teamed up with Harry Anslinger (in the government) 
to get Reefer madness made and eventually the Marijuana stamp act.
G. The money in taxes from Alcohol and tobacco sales seems to be keeping 
the government happy for now, while they blow billions on the DEA.
H. Legalizing Pot and selling it in liquor stores while taxing it like 
booze or tobacco seems to be a concept beyond their reach (or corruption 
by the booze and tobacco lobbies).
I. Meanwhile the government gets to tag more and more people as drug 
users and throws them in prison where they can make some real nice new 
friends.
J. The government has just created another lifetime criminal.

Anybody else think the government laws aren't out of date?

Last note. Even though it has been 75 years since the stamp act do you 
think politicians will ever admit they flat ass screwed up?

*NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN*

Bill Baka

On 8 okt, 18:22, "Dr. Ernst Primer (again)" 
wrote:
> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study...
>
> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy Cannabis
> Use"
>
> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass for
> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis self-administration.
>
> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my hippocampi
> have been so compromised over the years?

It smacks like pseudoscientific anti-cannabis propaganda, but on the
other
hand you can expect abnormalities if you use drugs excessively for
prolonged periods (responsible cannabis use probably entails
moderation). The purported 'damage' done by excessive prolonged
cannabis use is downright subtle in comparison to the potential damage
done by excessive prolonged alcohol or tobacco use.

"sobriquet"  wrote in message 
news:3b7152ee-5059-415b-8648-0579df85e7d6@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On 8 okt, 18:22, "Dr. Ernst Primer (again)" 
> wrote:
>> http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study...
>>
>> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy 
>> Cannabis
>> Use"
>>
>> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
>> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass 
>> for
>> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
>> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis 
>> self-administration.
>>
>> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my 
>> hippocampi
>> have been so compromised over the years?
>
> It smacks like pseudoscientific anti-cannabis propaganda, but on the
> other
> hand you can expect abnormalities if you use drugs excessively for
> prolonged periods (responsible cannabis use probably entails
> moderation). The purported 'damage' done by excessive prolonged
> cannabis use is downright subtle in comparison to the potential 
> damage
> done by excessive prolonged alcohol or tobacco use.
>
I think others have said it, age itself has a far, far greater effect 
on the body. That's the problem with these long term studies where the 
factors involved in the ageing process itself seem to be conveniently 
omitted.

On 12 okt, 13:06, "JohnR"  wrote:
> "sobriquet"  wrote in message
>
> news:3b7152ee-5059-415b-8648-0579df85e7d6@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 8 okt, 18:22, "Dr. Ernst Primer (again)" 
> > wrote:
> >>http://www.colorado.edu/alcohol/downloads/marijuana_chronic_use_study...
>
> >> "Regional Brain Abnormalities Associated With Long-term Heavy
> >> Cannabis
> >> Use"
>
> >> Now, mind you, I don't use pot anymore and haven't for years - but
> >> I've been so thoroughly trained by the bulls**t that tends to pass
> >> for
> >> science in this area that I'm highly skeptical of any research that
> >> purports toxicity directly linked with cannabis
> >> self-administration.
>
> >> Any comments? Perhaps I'm not appreciating this because my
> >> hippocampi
> >> have been so compromised over the years?
>
> > It smacks like pseudoscientific anti-cannabis propaganda, but on the
> > other
> > hand you can expect abnormalities if you use drugs excessively for
> > prolonged periods (responsible cannabis use probably entails
> > moderation). The purported 'damage' done by excessive prolonged
> > cannabis use is downright subtle in comparison to the potential
> > damage
> > done by excessive prolonged alcohol or tobacco use.
>
> I think others have said it, age itself has a far, far greater effect
> on the body. That's the problem with these long term studies where the
> factors involved in the ageing process itself seem to be conveniently
> omitted.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Education also supposedly shrinks the brain, so perhaps it's not
necessarily a bad thing.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/07/990714072939.htm