There is a growing body of opinion that INdirect, representative 
government is not fully up to the task of running ALL our public affairs 
ALL of the time.

On some important issues, the electorate wishes to propose policy (by 
citizens' initiative) and if necessary to decide directly in legally 
binding, citizen-triggered referendum.

To guide selected items of government policy and law, in between 
elections, the electorate should be able to exercise veto (via optional 
referendum).

Opinion survey data on our system of governance and many, many comments 
of electors support these assertions.

I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
http://www.iniref.org/

"I&Rgb"  wrote in message 
news:5ok0jrFnaid7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> There is a growing body of opinion that INdirect, representative 
> government is not fully up to the task of running ALL our public affairs 
> ALL of the time.
>
> On some important issues, the electorate wishes to propose policy (by 
> citizens' initiative) and if necessary to decide directly in legally 
> binding, citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> To guide selected items of government policy and law, in between 
> elections, the electorate should be able to exercise veto (via optional 
> referendum).
>
> Opinion survey data on our system of governance and many, many comments of 
> electors support these assertions.
>
> I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
> Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
> http://www.iniref.org/

That's all we need - another lot of numpties attempting to run the countries 
of the UK.
In the Scottish Parliament, any group of the people of Scotland, who wish to 
raise a petition to the Scottish Government have the legal right to do so.
Many already have.
-- 
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers wrote:
> "I&Rgb"  wrote in message 
> news:5ok0jrFnaid7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>> There is a growing body of opinion that INdirect, representative 
>> government is not fully up to the task of running ALL our public 
>> affairs ALL of the time.
>>
>> On some important issues, the electorate wishes to propose policy (by 
>> citizens' initiative) and if necessary to decide directly in legally 
>> binding, citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>> To guide selected items of government policy and law, in between 
>> elections, the electorate should be able to exercise veto (via 
>> optional referendum).
>>
>> Opinion survey data on our system of governance and many, many 
>> comments of electors support these assertions.
>>
>> I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
>> Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
>> http://www.iniref.org/
> 
> 
> That's all we need - another lot of numpties attempting to run the 
> countries of the UK.
> In the Scottish Parliament, any group of the people of Scotland, who 
> wish to raise a petition to the Scottish Government have the legal right 
> to do so.
> Many already have.

Irrelevant.

Please look at the facts, for instance:

Citizens' Initiative
With the "initiative" a citizen or group has the right to put forward a 
proposal to introduce or change law. In order that a proposal will be 
put to the electorate (in a "referendum" or "ballot") an agreed number 
of endorsements ("signatures") must be collected and validated.

Referendum
If the required number of endorsements is obtained, there are two ways 
to proceed:
1) The proposal is put to the electorate in a referendum.
2) The proposal is first presented to parliament or local council, which 
must debate it. Parliament or council may adopt the proposal and pass it 
as law. Proposals which are rejected must be put to the electorate in a 
referendum. If a majority of the electorate votes for the proposal then 
it becomes law.

"@ iniref.org" <""info \"@ iniref.org"> wrote in
news:5okje2FnbsnrU1@mid.uni-berlin.de: 

> Robert Peffers wrote:

>> That's all we need - another lot of numpties attempting to run the 
>> countries of the UK.
>> In the Scottish Parliament, any group of the people of Scotland, who 
>> wish to raise a petition to the Scottish Government have the legal
>> right to do so.
>> Many already have.
> 
> Irrelevant.
> 
> Please look at the facts, for instance:

'Facts'?? You don't even know what they are. You published a pack of
lies about being promised referenda on a variety of issues and, when
challenged on it, stuck the cut and paste below with an insult directed at 
me. You were then asked to address the points and did a runner. Given
the dishonesty you've displayed here, I doubt anyone would take your
word for anything you claim as a 'fact'.

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to address the points.

"@ iniref.org" <""info \"@ iniref.org"> wrote in message 
news:5okje2FnbsnrU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> Robert Peffers wrote:
>> "I&Rgb"  wrote in message 
>> news:5ok0jrFnaid7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>>> There is a growing body of opinion that INdirect, representative 
>>> government is not fully up to the task of running ALL our public affairs 
>>> ALL of the time.
>>>
>>> On some important issues, the electorate wishes to propose policy (by 
>>> citizens' initiative) and if necessary to decide directly in legally 
>>> binding, citizen-triggered referendum.
>>>
>>> To guide selected items of government policy and law, in between 
>>> elections, the electorate should be able to exercise veto (via optional 
>>> referendum).
>>>
>>> Opinion survey data on our system of governance and many, many comments 
>>> of electors support these assertions.
>>>
>>> I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
>>> Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
>>> http://www.iniref.org/
>>
>>
>> That's all we need - another lot of numpties attempting to run the 
>> countries of the UK.
>> In the Scottish Parliament, any group of the people of Scotland, who wish 
>> to raise a petition to the Scottish Government have the legal right to do 
>> so.
>> Many already have.
>
> Irrelevant.
>
> Please look at the facts, for instance:
>
> Citizens' Initiative
> With the "initiative" a citizen or group has the right to put forward a 
> proposal to introduce or change law. In order that a proposal will be put 
> to the electorate (in a "referendum" or "ballot") an agreed number of 
> endorsements ("signatures") must be collected and validated.
>
> Referendum
> If the required number of endorsements is obtained, there are two ways to 
> proceed:
> 1) The proposal is put to the electorate in a referendum.
> 2) The proposal is first presented to parliament or local council, which 
> must debate it. Parliament or council may adopt the proposal and pass it 
> as law. Proposals which are rejected must be put to the electorate in a 
> referendum. If a majority of the electorate votes for the proposal then it 
> becomes law.

By which law?
Scots law differs from English law.
-- 
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

"soupdragon"  wrote in message 
news:Xns99D7F0710AC4Bsouphotmailcom@85.114.133.75...
> "@ iniref.org" <""info \"@ iniref.org"> wrote in
> news:5okje2FnbsnrU1@mid.uni-berlin.de:
>
>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>
>>> That's all we need - another lot of numpties attempting to run the
>>> countries of the UK.
>>> In the Scottish Parliament, any group of the people of Scotland, who
>>> wish to raise a petition to the Scottish Government have the legal
>>> right to do so.
>>> Many already have.
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>>
>> Please look at the facts, for instance:
>
> 'Facts'?? You don't even know what they are. You published a pack of
> lies about being promised referenda on a variety of issues and, when
> challenged on it, stuck the cut and paste below with an insult directed at
> me. You were then asked to address the points and did a runner. Given
> the dishonesty you've displayed here, I doubt anyone would take your
> word for anything you claim as a 'fact'.
>
> BTW, I'm still waiting for you to address the points.
>

TELL ME - JUST WHO ARE YOU REFERING TO?
-- 
Auld Bob Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers wrote:
> "@ iniref.org" <""info \"@ iniref.org"> wrote in message 
> news:5okje2FnbsnrU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>
>>> "I&Rgb"  wrote in message 
>>> news:5ok0jrFnaid7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
>>>
>>>> There is a growing body of opinion that INdirect, representative 
>>>> government is not fully up to the task of running ALL our public 
>>>> affairs ALL of the time.
>>>>
>>>> On some important issues, the electorate wishes to propose policy 
>>>> (by citizens' initiative) and if necessary to decide directly in 
>>>> legally binding, citizen-triggered referendum.
>>>>
>>>> To guide selected items of government policy and law, in between 
>>>> elections, the electorate should be able to exercise veto (via 
>>>> optional referendum).
>>>>
>>>> Opinion survey data on our system of governance and many, many 
>>>> comments of electors support these assertions.
>>>>
>>>> I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
>>>> Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
>>>> http://www.iniref.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's all we need - another lot of numpties attempting to run the 
>>> countries of the UK.
>>> In the Scottish Parliament, any group of the people of Scotland, who 
>>> wish to raise a petition to the Scottish Government have the legal 
>>> right to do so.
>>> Many already have.
>>
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>>
>> Please look at the facts, for instance:
>>
>> Citizens' Initiative
>> With the "initiative" a citizen or group has the right to put forward 
>> a proposal to introduce or change law. In order that a proposal will 
>> be put to the electorate (in a "referendum" or "ballot") an agreed 
>> number of endorsements ("signatures") must be collected and validated.
>>
>> Referendum
>> If the required number of endorsements is obtained, there are two ways 
>> to proceed:
>> 1) The proposal is put to the electorate in a referendum.
>> 2) The proposal is first presented to parliament or local council, 
>> which must debate it. Parliament or council may adopt the proposal and 
>> pass it as law. Proposals which are rejected must be put to the 
>> electorate in a referendum. If a majority of the electorate votes for 
>> the proposal then it becomes law.
> 
> 
> By which law?
> Scots law differs from English law.

The Initiative and the citizen-triggered referendum, with very minor 
exceptions, are NOT available anywhere in the UK.

The Initiative, because it can force a referendum even if the ruling 
politicians are against, provides stronger democracy than the "petition".

The case for more democracy in UK and its countries (and cities, towns) 
is presented at www.iniref.org, also in a recent paper with a title 
(approximate) "supply side democracy" by Prof. Matt Qvortrup of Aberdeen 
University.

Regards
Wallace-Macpherson

I&R ~ GB Citizens' Initiative and Referendum
Campaign for direct democracy in Britain
http://www.iniref.org/

"Robert Peffers"  wrote in
news:192dnXZ2fbiZ17janZ2dnUVZ8vWdnZ2d@bt.com: 

> "soupdragon"  wrote in message 
> news:Xns99D7F0710AC4Bsouphotmailcom@85.114.133.75...
>> "@ iniref.org" <""info \"@ iniref.org"> wrote in
>> news:5okje2FnbsnrU1@mid.uni-berlin.de:
>>
>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>
>>>> That's all we need - another lot of numpties attempting to run the
>>>> countries of the UK.
>>>> In the Scottish Parliament, any group of the people of Scotland,
>>>> who wish to raise a petition to the Scottish Government have the
>>>> legal right to do so.
>>>> Many already have.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant.
>>>
>>> Please look at the facts, for instance:
>>
>> 'Facts'?? You don't even know what they are. You published a pack of
>> lies about being promised referenda on a variety of issues and, when
>> challenged on it, stuck the cut and paste below with an insult
>> directed at me. You were then asked to address the points and did a
>> runner. Given the dishonesty you've displayed here, I doubt anyone
>> would take your word for anything you claim as a 'fact'.
>>
>> BTW, I'm still waiting for you to address the points.
>>
> 
> TELL ME - JUST WHO ARE YOU REFERING TO?

The line below my attribution reads:
"@ iniref.org" <""info \"@ iniref.org"> wrote in news:5okje2FnbsnrU1
@mid.uni-berlin.de:

That's who.