LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
*
Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece

Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to 
be involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years 
at the ballot box."
------------------------------
I&R ~ GB replies

It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about 
democracy reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. 
Gordon Brown's suggestions in this context are over-cautious.

Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the 
conditions for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or 
proposal to seek support for the idea and put it to the rest of us 
(maybe via parliament or council) for decision. Experience shows that 
not only  the "usual suspects" such as opposition parties and trade 
unions will propose policy etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby 
groups can succeed.

A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
citizen-triggered referendum.

More about the latter may be found at the web site 
http://www.iniref.org/  and an account of how the procedures work in 
five nearby countries may be found in Journal of the Association for 
Accountancy & Business Affairs 
http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/

"INIREF"  wrote in message 
news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
> *
> Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
> Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>
> Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
> involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
> the ballot box."
> ------------------------------
> I&R ~ GB replies
>
> It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
> reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
> suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>
> Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
> empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
> for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
> support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
> council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
> suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
> etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>
> A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
> Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
> assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
> public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
> citizen-triggered referendum.
>
> More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
> and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
> found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
> http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html

Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.
-- 

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Robert Peffers. wrote:

> "INIREF"  wrote in message 
> news:5f3p2kF3b9sqqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de...
> 
>>LETTER TO "THE TIMES"
>>*
>>Does power to the people mean democracy or direct participation?*
>>Peter Riddell: Political Briefing July 5, 2007
>>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article2028757.ece
>>
>>Riddell wrote "There is little dispute now that voters have a right to be 
>>involved between elections, rather than just every four or five years at 
>>the ballot box."
>>------------------------------
>>I&R ~ GB replies
>>
>>It is good to hear this but many of P. Riddell's concerns about democracy 
>>reform which increases public participation are ungrounded. Gordon Brown's 
>>suggestions in this context are over-cautious.
>>
>>Riddell's fears that introducing the right to propose legislation will 
>>empower "vocal" groups. Well, yes, but it would also create the conditions 
>>for any person or group who has a serious suggestion or proposal to seek 
>>support for the idea and put it to the rest of us (maybe via parliament or 
>>council) for decision. Experience shows that not only  the "usual 
>>suspects" such as opposition parties and trade unions will propose policy 
>>etc. but also that ad hoc and small lobby groups can succeed.
>>
>>A report about "57 varieties" of political participation for the Power 
>>Inquiry selected three for special praise: The citizens' deliberative 
>>assembly (as for British Columbia's constitution); Citizens' juries on 
>>public policy; Real direct democracy such as citizens' initiative and 
>>citizen-triggered referendum.
>>
>>More about the latter may be found at the web site http://www.iniref.org/ 
>>and an account of how the procedures work in five nearby countries may be 
>>found in Journal of the Association for Accountancy & Business Affairs 
>>http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/aabajourVol5-No1.html
> 
> 
> Do you realise that Holyrood has a very successful policy of public 
> petitions that has yielded quite a few real improvements in Scotland.

Robert Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).

Aye indeed. An interesting innovation, moreso because "on-line" 
proposals and endorsement collection are possible. Nevertheless a 
petition remains only a request, a suggestion to parliament (whereas 
Gordon Brown has tantalised by offering real empowerment of the people). 
Should parliament reject the suggestion, then the matter goes no 
further. With partial direct democracy, which we propose, as practised 
in Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia and about half of the USA states, a 
proposal with many endorsements, if rejected by parliament, goes before 
the whole electorate for decision.

Wallace-Macpherson
I&R ~ GB
http://www.iniref.org/