'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press

Humane Meat?
It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.

 For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is
Polyface really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended-
wire cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined
without the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order.
Pigs and cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
crated with seven other birds. After three days without food, they are
grabbed by the feet, up-ended in metal cones, and without any stunning,
have their throats slit.

[image at link - warning]

This is the system Pollan proclaims praiseworthy. In the end, Polyface's
view is the same as Tyson's - these individuals are, ultimately, just meat
to be sold for a profit. It's logically and emotionally impossible for there
to be any /real/ respect, any /true, fundamental/ concern for the interests
of these individuals when these living, breathing, feeling animals exist only
to be butchered and consumed. If we insist that we must consume actual
animal flesh instead of a vegetarian option, it's naïve, at best, to believe
any system will /really/ take good care of the animals we pay them to
slaughter. If you say an individual is just meat, they'll be treated as such. . . . .

Consuming or promoting "humane" meat is not a different diet, nor an
ethical example, nor an effective advocacy technique. It's just a variation
on the view of animals as meat. Calling any flesh-food "humane" - a word
that references the very best of our nature - bastardizes the very idea.

- From pp. 97-99 of The Animal Activist's Handbook: Maximizing
Our Positive Impact in Today's World, by Matt Ball and Bruce Friedrich,
Lantern Books, 2009
http://www.upc-online.org/summer2009/humane_meat.html

"O.pearl"  wrote 
> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
> 
> Humane Meat?
> It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
> than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
> 
> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
> endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
> animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is
> Polyface really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended-
> wire cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined
> without the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order.
> Pigs and cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]


Evidence?

"Dutch" wrote:

> "O.pearl"  wrote in message news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press 
>>
>> Humane Meat? 
>> It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" 
>> than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not. 
>>
>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan 
>> endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be 
>> animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is 
>> Polyface really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- 
>> wire cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined 
>> without the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. 
>> Pigs and cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional 
>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are 
>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...] 
>
> Evidence? 

Still here?  You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.

"O.pearl"  wrote in message
news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch" wrote:
>
>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the
>>> ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>
>> Evidence?
>
> Still here?

Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.

 > You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.

I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.

"Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> 
> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>
>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the
>>>> ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>
>>> Evidence?
>>
>> Still here?
> 
> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.

Always demanding evidence, but never provide any.  Shameless.
 
> > You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.
> 
> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.

You don't think.  Regardez....

http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html

"O.pearl"  wrote in message 
news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch"  wrote in message 
> news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>
>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is 
>>>>> Polyface
>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without 
>>>>> the
>>>>> ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>
>>>> Evidence?
>>>
>>> Still here?
>>
>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>
> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any.  Shameless.

I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do. In this case however it is 
warranted given all the outrageous claims.

>> > You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>
>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>
> You don't think.  Regardez....
>
> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html

And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read. It 
doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.

"Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> 
> "O.pearl"  wrote in message 
> news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>> "Dutch"  wrote in message 
>> news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without 
>>>>>> the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>
>>>> Still here?
>>>
>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>>
>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any.  Shameless.
> 
> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do. 

My bad... you're forever *avoiding* evidence.  

> In this case however it is 
> warranted given all the outrageous claims.

I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous.  So do we.

>>> > You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>
>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>
>> You don't think.  Regardez....
>>
>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
> 
> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read. 

'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.'? 

> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.

It's looks exactly as he describes it.

'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a sweltering 
day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs in the beating sun, panting like 
mad. The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat 
larvae from. Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren 
wire cages. There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."
..'
http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html

"O.pearl"  wrote in message 
news:x49km.29804$j7.493426@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch"  wrote in message 
> news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message 
>> news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>>> "Dutch"  wrote in message 
>>> news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan 
>>>>>>> endorses
>>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is 
>>>>>>> Polyface
>>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without 
>>>>>>> the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>>
>>>>> Still here?
>>>>
>>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a 
>>>> week.
>>>
>>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any.  Shameless.
>>
>> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do.
>
> My bad...

Agreed. I am interested in reasonable opinions and arguments, always have 
been. "Evidence" to support almost anything is readily available for the 
copypasta crowd.

> you're forever *avoiding* evidence.

False

>> In this case however it is warranted given all the outrageous claims.
>
> I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous.  So do we.

They're not facts, they are value judgments.

>
>>>> > You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>>
>>> You don't think.  Regardez....
>>>
>>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
>>
>> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read.
>
> 'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to 
> their nature.'?

I don't recall that particular quote in the book, however to an extent, yes. 
They are domesticated animals after all.

>> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.
>
> It's looks exactly as he describes it.

No, it doesn't.
>
> 'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a 
> sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs in the beating 
> sun, panting like mad.

Not seen in the photos.

 The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat
> larvae from.

Not seen, however, larvae are an excellent forage for chickens, very 
nutritious and  they would love them

 Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren
> wire cages.

Not seen in the photos

 > There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."

Opinion, not fact.

[..]

"Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6scim$58a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "O.pearl"  wrote in message news:x49km.29804$j7.493426@news.indigo.ie...
>> "Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>>>> "Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan  endorses
>>>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest or the space to establish a 
>>>>>>>> pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>>>>
>>>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any.  Shameless.
>>>
>>> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do.
>>
>> My bad...
>
> Agreed. I am interested in reasonable opinions and arguments, always have been. "Evidence" to support almost anything is readily 
> available for the copypasta crowd.

Learn the meaning.

Reasonable opinions and arguments are based on facts - which you ignore.

... Now ludicrously claiming that any/all evidence is essentially meaningless.

>> you're forever *avoiding* evidence.
>
> False

Pants ablaze!

>>> In this case however it is warranted given all the outrageous claims.
>>
>> I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous.  So do we.
>
> They're not facts, they are value judgments.

It's an accurate portrayal of what's considered the gold standard in "welfare".

>>>>> > You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>>>
>>>> You don't think.  Regardez....
>>>>
>>>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
>>>
>>> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read.
>>
>> 'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.'?
>
> I don't recall that particular quote in the book, however to an extent, yes.

To an extent, eh.  What gives you the right to decide to what 'extent'?

> They are domesticated animals after all.

Meaning what exactly?

>>> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.
>>
>> It's looks exactly as he describes it.
>
> No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

'Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire cages. Chickens
are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest
or the space to establish a pecking order.'

Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060032.jpg
Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060039.jpg

>> 'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs 
>> in the beating sun, panting like mad.
>
> Not seen in the photos.

Very clearly seen in the photos.

> The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat
>> larvae from.
>
> Not seen, however, larvae are an excellent forage for chickens, very nutritious and  they would love them

"The waiter said, 'All of our chicken is free-range.' And I said, 'He doesn't
look very free there on that plate.'" - Bob Joe Briggs, "We Are the Weird"

> Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren
>> wire cages.
>
> Not seen in the photos

Seen.  Here too:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060039.jpg

> > There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."
>
> Opinion, not fact.

'Dictionary: free·dom   (fre'd?m)
n.
1. The condition of being free of restraints.
2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
3. a. Political independence.
    b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the
performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: ...
5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: ...
6. Ease or facility of movement: ...
7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: ...
8. a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: ...
b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership
or citizenship: the freedom of the city.
9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without
control or interference:
..'
http://www.answers.com/freedom

'Compassion

Wikipedia

Compassion is a human emotion prompted by the pain of others.
More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to
an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though
not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social
context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions
down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule embody by
implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you
would have them do to you. [1]
..'
http://www.answers.com/topic/compassion

> [..] http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html
>

correction*

"O.pearl"  wrote in message news:S2wkm.29816$j7.493408@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6scim$58a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message news:x49km.29804$j7.493426@news.indigo.ie...
>>> "Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>> "Dutch"  wrote in message news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "O.pearl"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan  endorses
>>>>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest or the space to establish a 
>>>>>>>>> pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>>>>>
>>>>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any.  Shameless.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do.
>>>
>>> My bad...
>>
>> Agreed. I am interested in reasonable opinions and arguments, always have been. "Evidence" to support almost anything is readily 
>> available for the copypasta crowd.
>
> Learn the meaning.
>
> Reasonable opinions and arguments are based on facts - which you ignore.
>
> ... Now ludicrously claiming that any/all evidence is essentially meaningless.
>
>>> you're forever *avoiding* evidence.
>>
>> False
>
> Pants ablaze!
>
>>>> In this case however it is warranted given all the outrageous claims.
>>>
>>> I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous.  So do we.
>>
>> They're not facts, they are value judgments.
>
> It's an accurate portrayal of what's considered the gold standard in "welfare".
>
>>>>>> > You promote Polyface farm.  Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't think.  Regardez....
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
>>>>
>>>> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read.
>>>
>>> 'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.'?
>>
>> I don't recall that particular quote in the book, however to an extent, yes.
>
> To an extent, eh.  What gives you the right to decide to what 'extent'?
>
>> They are domesticated animals after all.
>
> Meaning what exactly?
>
>>>> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.
>>>
>>> It's looks exactly as he describes it.
>>
>> No, it doesn't.
>
> Yes, it does.
>
> 'Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire cages. Chickens
> are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest
> or the space to establish a pecking order.'
>
> Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060032.jpg
> Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060039.jpg
>
>>> 'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin 
>>> roofs in the beating sun, panting like mad.
>>
>> Not seen in the photos.
>
> Very clearly seen in the photos.
>
>> The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat
>>> larvae from.
>>
>> Not seen, however, larvae are an excellent forage for chickens, very nutritious and  they would love them
>
> "The waiter said, 'All of our chicken is free-range.' And I said, 'He doesn't
> look very free there on that plate.'" - Bob Joe Briggs, "We Are the Weird"
>
>> Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren
>>> wire cages.
>>
>> Not seen in the photos
>
> Seen.  Here too:
*> http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060032.jpg
>
>> > There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."
>>
>> Opinion, not fact.
>
> 'Dictionary: free·dom   (fre'd?m)
> n.
> 1. The condition of being free of restraints.
> 2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
> 3. a. Political independence.
>    b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the
> performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
> 4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: ...
> 5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: ...
> 6. Ease or facility of movement: ...
> 7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: ...
> 8. a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: ...
> b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership
> or citizenship: the freedom of the city.
> 9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without
> control or interference:
> ..'
> http://www.answers.com/freedom
>
> 'Compassion
>
> Wikipedia
>
> Compassion is a human emotion prompted by the pain of others.
> More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to
> an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though
> not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social
> context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions
> down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule embody by
> implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you
> would have them do to you. [1]
> ..'
> http://www.answers.com/topic/compassion
>
>> [..] http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html
>>
>

On Aug 15, 4:14 pm, "O.pearl"  wrote:
> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>
> Humane Meat?
> It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
> than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>
>  For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
> endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
> animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.

Great book.  I'm not sure I agree with your analysis that he "endorses
eating animals"..  the whole book is more along the lines of telling
stories about different foods, where they come from, etc.  Well worth
the read.  He specifically stays away from telling someone what they
should or shouldn't eat, a good policy :)

> [snip]
>
> [image at link - warning]
>
> If we insist that we must consume actual
> animal flesh instead of a vegetarian option, it's naïve, at best, to believe
> any system will /really/ take good care of the animals we pay them to
> slaughter. If you say an individual is just meat, they'll be treated as such. . . . .
>

Croc Dundee said it best when it comes to eating animals:  "you can
eat it, but it tastes like isht."

"funkenstein"  wrote in message news:b3a1f89c-3711-45c7-875f-0f7f2542128e@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 15, 4:14 pm, "O.pearl"  wrote:
> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>
> Humane Meat?
> It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
> than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>
> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
> endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
> animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.

Great book.  I'm not sure I agree with your analysis that he "endorses
eating animals"..  the whole book is more along the lines of telling
stories about different foods, where they come from, etc.  Well worth
the read.  He specifically stays away from telling someone what they
should or shouldn't eat, a good policy :)

----------

Books September 2007 Atlantic
The gourmet's ongoing failure to think in moral terms
by B. R. Myers
Hard to Swallow
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200709/omnivore

(page 4)

' The wrongness of factory farming thus established, Pollan heads off to an
idyllic farm in Virginia, "a scene of almost classic pastoral beauty." For all its
relevance to the big picture of American meat production, it might as well
have been a place where animals get to die of old age. But gourmets love to
preach the benefits of organic fare to the country at large, feigning a child's
ignorance of economics all the while; it is the only way they can pass off
their pursuit of pleasure as a social conscience.

On the farm, Pollan gets to try his hand at a little throat cutting:

 Daniel explained that you wanted to sever only the artery, not the head, so
 that the heart would continue to beat and pump out the blood . I told
 myself that their suffering, once their throats were slit, was brief. Yet it took
 several long minutes for the spasms to subside . but the waiting birds did
 not seem panicked, and I took solace in their seeming obliviousness. Yet,
 honestly, there wasn't much time for these reflections, because you're
 working on an assembly (or, really, disassembly) line.

There is, however, time for the reflection, "Was I going to be able to enjoy eating
chicken so soon after my stint in the processing shed and gut-composting pile?"
The paramount question of enjoyment has ramifications for organic food in general;
a gourmet is not going to stint on his pleasure just to save the Earth. When Pollan
finally cooks a chicken for a few friends, the moral-o-meter's reading is conclusive:
The meal is "out of this world." The only complication is the presence of his friends'
son Matthew, "fifteen and currently a vegetarian," who "had many more questions
about killing chickens than I thought wise to answer at the dinner table." Of course!
But doesn't Pollan say in his introduction that the pleasures of eating are "only
deepened by knowing"? And if it is so natural to kill and eat animals, and so
sentimental to think otherwise, why is the vegetarian the only one who can stomach
the details? Pollan can't be bothered telling us why Matthew became a vegetarian.
We are clearly meant to take it for a mere teenage phase, nothing a restriction of his
options won't cure: "He confined himself to the corn."

Our investigative journalist interviews none of America's other vegetarians, either,
relying instead on poultry farmers who claim to have sighted one or two. (We're to
believe an anecdote, which shines with all the coherence and credibility of a letter to
Penthouse, that a PETA member turned up at the "processing shed" one day, asking
to kill chickens to overcome an aversion to meat.) This is not to say that Pollan
brooks no contradiction. An entire chapter of The Omnivore's Dilemma is devoted
to a scrupulously fair debate with the text of Peter Singer's Animal Liberation, and
Pollan summarizes the Australian ethicist's views in the same lively style as his own.
But he prefaces it all by smirking that he read the book in a fancy restaurant while
eating "a rib-eye steak cooked medium rare," thereby putting all this morality
business into the proper perspective.

Though Singer's reasoning may be inexorable, Pollan's appetite is unimpressed:

 I put down my fork. If I believe in equality, and equality is based on interests
 rather than characteristics, then either I have to take the steer's interest into
 account or accept that I'm a speciesist.

 For the time being, I decided, I'll plead guilty as charged. I finished my steak.

This spurious show of open-mindedness recalls Hans Küng, the Swiss theologian
who uses a comparable technique when defending Christianity against secular critics.
The similarity is not surprising, considering that our dietary and religious habits are
both acquired in early childhood, which makes them hard to break no matter what
we learn in later life. The Pollan-Küng Technique goes like this: One debates the
other side in a rational manner until pushed into a corner. Then one simply drops
the argument and slips away, pretending that one has not fallen short of reason but
instead transcended it. The irreconcilability of one's belief with reason is then held
up as a great mystery, the humble readiness to live with which puts one above
lesser minds and their cheap certainties. As Pollan writes:

 I have to say there is a part of me that envies the moral clarity of the vegetarian,
 the blamelessness of the tofu eater. Yet part of me pities him, too. Dreams of
 innocence are just that; they usually depend on a denial of reality that can be its
 own form of hubris."

How arrogant, in other words, how pitifully close to mental illness, to want to be a
better person! But this is where the Christian and the gourmet part ways.

All the same, Pollan decides to in-dulge his inner George Plimpton again, becoming
"a reluctant, and, I fervently hoped, temporary vegetarian." How seriously he took
his meat-free diet can be guessed at. Though he claims to have stuck to it for at least
a month, this most voluble of food writers does not name a single thing he ate. Nor,
it seems, did he dine with any vegetarians.
..'
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200709/omnivore/4

On Aug 27, 4:12 pm, "O.pearl"  wrote:
> "funkenstein"  wrote in messagenews:b3a1f89c-3711-45c7-875f-0f7f2542128e@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Aug 15, 4:14 pm, "O.pearl"  wrote:
>
> > 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>
> > Humane Meat?
> > It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
> > than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>
> > For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
> > endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
> > animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.
>
> Great book.  I'm not sure I agree with your analysis that he "endorses
> eating animals"..  the whole book is more along the lines of telling
> stories about different foods, where they come from, etc.  Well worth
> the read.  He specifically stays away from telling someone what they
> should or shouldn't eat, a good policy :)
>
> ----------
>
> Books September 2007 Atlantic
> The gourmet's ongoing failure to think in moral terms
> by B. R. Myers
> Hard to Swallowhttp://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200709/omnivore
>
> (page 4)
>
> ' The wrongness of factory farming thus established, Pollan heads off to an
> idyllic farm in Virginia, "a scene of almost classic pastoral beauty." For all its
> relevance to the big picture of American meat production, it might as well
> have been a place where animals get to die of old age. But gourmets love to
> preach the benefits of organic fare to the country at large, feigning a child's
> ignorance of economics all the while; it is the only way they can pass off
> their pursuit of pleasure as a social conscience.
>
> On the farm, Pollan gets to try his hand at a little throat cutting:
>
>  Daniel explained that you wanted to sever only the artery, not the head, so
>  that the heart would continue to beat and pump out the blood . I told
>  myself that their suffering, once their throats were slit, was brief. Yet it took
>  several long minutes for the spasms to subside . but the waiting birds did
>  not seem panicked, and I took solace in their seeming obliviousness. Yet,
>  honestly, there wasn't much time for these reflections, because you're
>  working on an assembly (or, really, disassembly) line.
>
> There is, however, time for the reflection, "Was I going to be able to enjoy eating
> chicken so soon after my stint in the processing shed and gut-composting pile?"
> The paramount question of enjoyment has ramifications for organic food in general;
> a gourmet is not going to stint on his pleasure just to save the Earth. When Pollan
> finally cooks a chicken for a few friends, the moral-o-meter's reading is conclusive:
> The meal is "out of this world." The only complication is the presence of his friends'
> son Matthew, "fifteen and currently a vegetarian," who "had many more questions
> about killing chickens than I thought wise to answer at the dinner table." Of course!
> But doesn't Pollan say in his introduction that the pleasures of eating are "only
> deepened by knowing"? And if it is so natural to kill and eat animals, and so
> sentimental to think otherwise, why is the vegetarian the only one who can stomach
> the details? Pollan can't be bothered telling us why Matthew became a vegetarian.
> We are clearly meant to take it for a mere teenage phase, nothing a restriction of his
> options won't cure: "He confined himself to the corn."

Pollan is taken a bit out of context here.  Yes he killed a chicken
and ate it.  If one wants to know more about killing and eating
chickens that is a good way to do it.  His mantra is "eat food, not
too much, mostly plants".  His aim for that book was not to discuss
what food is healthy for us (as individuals, as a species, as a living
planet) but to give a big picture of what people are eating.  I
imagine in some of his other work he gets into why Matthew "became a
vegetarian".

>
> Our investigative journalist interviews none of America's other vegetarians, either,
> relying instead on poultry farmers who claim to have sighted one or two. (We're to
> believe an anecdote, which shines with all the coherence and credibility of a letter to
> Penthouse, that a PETA member turned up at the "processing shed" one day, asking
> to kill chickens to overcome an aversion to meat.) This is not to say that Pollan
> brooks no contradiction. An entire chapter of The Omnivore's Dilemma is devoted
> to a scrupulously fair debate with the text of Peter Singer's Animal Liberation, and
> Pollan summarizes the Australian ethicist's views in the same lively style as his own.
> But he prefaces it all by smirking that he read the book in a fancy restaurant while
> eating "a rib-eye steak cooked medium rare," thereby putting all this morality
> business into the proper perspective.
>
> Though Singer's reasoning may be inexorable, Pollan's appetite is unimpressed:
>
>  I put down my fork. If I believe in equality, and equality is based on interests
>  rather than characteristics, then either I have to take the steer's interest into
>  account or accept that I'm a speciesist.
>
>  For the time being, I decided, I'll plead guilty as charged. I finished my steak.
>
> This spurious show of open-mindedness recalls Hans Küng, the Swiss theologian
> who uses a comparable technique when defending Christianity against secular critics.
> The similarity is not surprising, considering that our dietary and religious habits are
> both acquired in early childhood, which makes them hard to break no matter what
> we learn in later life. The Pollan-Küng Technique goes like this: One debates the
> other side in a rational manner until pushed into a corner. Then one simply drops
> the argument and slips away, pretending that one has not fallen short of reason but
> instead transcended it. The irreconcilability of one's belief with reason is then held
> up as a great mystery, the humble readiness to live with which puts one above
> lesser minds and their cheap certainties.

The author of this review has a point here.  It is easy to shy away
from one's beliefs in the goal of acceptance by the masses.  Lets try
and avoid that when we can.

> As Pollan writes:
>
>  I have to say there is a part of me that envies the moral clarity of the vegetarian,
>  the blamelessness of the tofu eater. Yet part of me pities him, too. Dreams of
>  innocence are just that; they usually depend on a denial of reality that can be its
>  own form of hubris."
>

Indeed this point is made a lot on this forum.  There is a lot more to
our choices and the impact of our consumption than just the animal
protein content.

> How arrogant, in other words, how pitifully close to mental illness, to want to be a
> better person! But this is where the Christian and the gourmet part ways.
>
> All the same, Pollan decides to in-dulge his inner George Plimpton again, becoming
> "a reluctant, and, I fervently hoped, temporary vegetarian." How seriously he took
> his meat-free diet can be guessed at. Though he claims to have stuck to it for at least
> a month, this most voluble of food writers does not name a single thing he ate. Nor,
> it seems, did he dine with any vegetarians.

So anybody read any of his other books?  Thinking about picking one
up..