It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.

I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm

"Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
> matches his gun

the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and 
probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching the 
rifling etc.

> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.

Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?

>
> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm

Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the forensic 
won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the jury that as a 
result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to give the 
accused the benefit of the doubt.

OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he may 
be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not get 
much discount for pleading guilty.

On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.

That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?

>
> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.

Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
first!

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:36:41 -0700 (PDT), theodoredice@googlemail.com wrote:

>On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
>That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
>Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>first!

Do I hear presumption of innocence mentioned?

Tessy

On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm

ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
scrutiny that a trial brings ...

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:00:10 +0100, Tessy  wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:36:41 -0700 (PDT), theodoredice@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>> first!
>
> Do I hear presumption of innocence mentioned?

Followup abuse detected.

[plonk]

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Earth is 98% full, please delete anyone you can.

Jethro wrote:
> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys
>> Jones matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number
>> matches his.
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>
> ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
> reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
> scrutiny that a trial brings ...

Such a course enables the judge to assess the relative guilt of each 
participant, and indeed, the jury to acquit those who have not been proved 
to have taken any part in the crime. Let's not forget there are seven 
co-accused here, and nobody ever pleads guilty to murder in Liverpool 
(unless things have changed a lot in the last 30 years!)

Iggly Doodah wrote:
> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
> 
> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm

He's also the one who was named on Youtube pretty much when it happened..

-- 
Pete M - OMF#9

BMW 325i SE Touring
Range Rover V8 Turbo
Renault 30 TX Auto

"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country"

Jethro  posted
>ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
>scrutiny that a trial brings ...

Do the prosecution get a say in how the defendant pleads, then? First 
I've heard of that.

-- 
Les

"R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message 
news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
>> matches his gun
>
> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and 
> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching 
> the rifling etc.


>
>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>
> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the 
> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the jury 
> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to 
> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>
> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he may 
> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not get 
> much discount for pleading guilty.
You cannot get a discount on a life sentence

"Jethro"  wrote in message 
news:6bad815f-3e8d-4135-84f6-58f48627503a@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>
> ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
> reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
> scrutiny that a trial brings ...
>

What ??

"Pete M"  wrote in message 
news:gco0r4$b0a$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Iggly Doodah wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>
> He's also the one who was named on Youtube pretty much when it happened..
>
> -- 

Must be guilty then if it was on youtube

Airmax wrote:


>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>> Jones matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number 
>>> matches his.
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>
>> He's also the one who was named on Youtube pretty much when it happened..

> Must be guilty then if it was on youtube

Yeah yeah. It just amused me that his was the name that was mentioned at 
the time and he's the fucker they've collared for it.

Not very often the windowlickers who post comments on youtube are right 
about something, but this time it's looking like they are.

-- 
Pete M - OMF#9


"Wait! We can't stop here, this is Bat Country"

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 at 08:58:31, Jethro  wrote in 
uk.legal :

>On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>
>ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict

I assume you meant guilty *plea*?

>, as it effectively bypasses the
>scrutiny that a trial brings ...
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

"Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm

It is a game the little scumbags play.  They torture the victim's family
as far as they can, play about, cost the taxpayer millions and the Judge
and barristers string it out for as long as they can.
At least this way he will not be out for at least 18 years.  He will appeal
after he is sent down so that will cost the taxpayer even more.
After seeing the news it would appear the evidence is overwhelming.
His family are scumbags too by the look of it.  They knew exactly what
he was up to and his neighbours turned a blind eye.  That is why some
areas fall in to such chaos and the police lose control.
The Matrix Team took ages, but they appear to have a watertight case.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:28:44 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
 wrote:

>Jethro wrote:
>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys
>>> Jones matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number
>>> matches his.
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>
>> ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>> reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
>> scrutiny that a trial brings ...
>
>Such a course enables the judge to assess the relative guilt of each 
>participant, and indeed, the jury to acquit those who have not been proved 
>to have taken any part in the crime. Let's not forget there are seven 
>co-accused here, and nobody ever pleads guilty to murder in Liverpool 
>(unless things have changed a lot in the last 30 years!)
>
>

Liverpool?  Have I missed something, care to explain...

wrote in message 
news:209987bd-6cab-4f79-b26b-4a737cf84e30@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
> first!

Is he innocent?
Maybe, maybe not.
But the people local to the area know who killed Rhys.
It's ...kind of.... local knowledge...
By that, I don't mean it's rumour or speculation.
I mean that there's people who really do know what went on, and they do talk 
about it, but not necessarily to the police, but to each other.
Let's see how the trial pans out.

-- 
Steve O
a.a. #2240
B.A.A.W.A.
Convicted by Earthquack
Exempt from purgatory by Papal Indulgence

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:36:41 -0700 (PDT), theodoredice@googlemail.com wrote:

>On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
>That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
>Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>first!

Presumption of innocence!

Tessy wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:36:41 -0700 (PDT), theodoredice@googlemail.com wrote:
> 
>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>> first!
> 
> Presumption of innocence!

Mercer has admitted shooting Rhys Jones
what is there to plead not guilty about?

"R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun
>
> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and
> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching
> the rifling etc.
>
>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>
> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the jury
> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to
> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>
> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he may
> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not get
> much discount for pleading guilty.
The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to restore
for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after that
time does the DNA evidence live on?
Derek.




 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
                http://www.usenet.com

In message <gco7nc$p43$1@news.albasani.net>, Ian  
writes

>It is a game the little scumbags play.  They torture the victim's 
>family as far as they can, play about, cost the taxpayer millions

Also known as exercising their right to a fair trial which is what makes 
the difference between a fair society and a police state.

> and the Judge and barristers string it out for as long as they can.

Why would they do that? The judge is on a salary. The barrister is on a 
graduated fee, not an hourly rate. No benefit to stringing it out.
-- 
Richard Miller

"DerekF"  wrote in message 
news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>
> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun
>>
>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and
>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching
>> the rifling etc.
>>
>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>
>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the jury
>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to
>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>
>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he 
>> may
>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not get
>> much discount for pleading guilty.
> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to restore
> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after that
> time does the DNA evidence live on?
It can do.  We'll have to see.

"mert1639"  wrote in message 
news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>
> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>
>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>>> Jones
>>>> matches his gun
>>>
>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and
>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching
>>> the rifling etc.
>>>
>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>
>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>
>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the jury
>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to
>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>
>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he 
>>> may
>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not get
>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>> restore
>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after that
>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
> It can do.  We'll have to see.

The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
Derek 



 Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
                http://www.usenet.com

"DerekF"  wrote in message 
news:1223740808_238369@news.usenet.com...
>
> "mert1639"  wrote in message 
> news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>>
>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>>
>>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>>>> Jones
>>>>> matches his gun
>>>>
>>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and
>>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching
>>>> the rifling etc.
>>>>
>>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>
>>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>>
>>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the 
>>>> jury
>>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to
>>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he 
>>>> may
>>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not 
>>>> get
>>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>>> restore
>>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after 
>>> that
>>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
>> It can do.  We'll have to see.
>
> The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
What would that prove?  How do we know it was the bike used in the killing?

mert1639 wrote:
> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
> news:1223740808_238369@news.usenet.com...
>> "mert1639"  wrote in message 
>> news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>>> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>>>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>>>>> Jones
>>>>>> matches his gun
>>>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and
>>>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching
>>>>> the rifling etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the 
>>>>> jury
>>>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to
>>>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he 
>>>>> may
>>>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not 
>>>>> get
>>>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>>>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>>>> restore
>>>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after 
>>>> that
>>>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
>>> It can do.  We'll have to see.
>> The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
> What would that prove?  How do we know it was the bike used in the killing? 
> 
> 

It was a rare bike. The serial number on it was the same as Mercers. I'd 
say that it was the bike.

"Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
news:gcqfdl$un6$1@aioe.org...
> mert1639 wrote:
>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>> news:1223740808_238369@news.usenet.com...
>>> "mert1639"  wrote in message 
>>> news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>>>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>>>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>>>>>> Jones
>>>>>>> matches his gun
>>>>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun 
>>>>>> (and
>>>>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as 
>>>>>> matching
>>>>>> the rifling etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>>>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the 
>>>>>> jury
>>>>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so 
>>>>>> he may
>>>>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>>>>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>>>>> restore
>>>>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after 
>>>>> that
>>>>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
>>>> It can do.  We'll have to see.
>>> The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
>> What would that prove?  How do we know it was the bike used in the 
>> killing?
>
> It was a rare bike. The serial number on it was the same as Mercers. I'd 
> say that it was the bike.
>
Had probably stamped his Post Code on it in case it was nicked:-)
Derek. 



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On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:48:57 +0100, Tessy  wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:36:41 -0700 (PDT), theodoredice@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>> first!
>
> Presumption of innocence!

Followup abuse detected.

[plonk]

-- 
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com    http://www.petersphotos.com

Some "chinese english" instructions (with software for a camera card).  This is the contents of a file named "English installs the elucidation.doc", quoted in its entirety:

The high regard's customer:
How are you!
Thank youing can use the pico product of my company, and please press below the operation order install, and thank!
A,The software installs in proper order
1, install the good WIN2000 system;
2, open the software light the dish;
3, double click the SETUP.EXE
4, the model number of the choice gearing
   a)PICO2000_104( PALApplication) this model number can at most support 4 roads see the frequency signal the importation
   b)PICO2000_208( PALApplication) this model number can at most support 8 roads see the frequency signal the importation
   c)PICO2000_416( PALApplication) this model number can at most support 16 roads see the frequency signal the importation
5, after finishing installing, three documents that light patch in the dish the catalogue descend: The msdxm.ocx, odbc32.dll, odbcint.dll beat  arrives the c:\ windows\ system inside.
6, square version of usage hero , please double click the light the English Pack in the dish the document.
7, the copy resemble the regulating of appearance tone must install the VideoSetup software to proceed to regulate, install the procedure under the light dish root the catalogue VideoSetup the blank page clip setup.exe.
Plank card gearing
1.Insert the plank card arrive the main plank PCI the slot;
2.Start the calculator, and the auto install the plank card the drive to move the procedure( position:Light dish driver catalogue bottom)
Change the compression method
Beginning the ? circulate the ? the importation the " REGEDIT", and make sure the ?? enter the registration watch the editor, and open the HKEY ? CURRENT ? the USER\ software\ univision Canada Linited\ the pico2000 double click the " CODEC" can is worth this key to change to" MP42" or" IV50"
Note:
MP42 ?? the MPEG4 compress the way( suggestion adoption MPEG4 compress way, should compress the way the compression the rate to is high)
IV50 ?? the INDEO compress the way

"Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
news:gcqfdl$un6$1@aioe.org...
> mert1639 wrote:
>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>> news:1223740808_238369@news.usenet.com...
>>> "mert1639"  wrote in message 
>>> news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>>>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>>>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>>>>>> Jones
>>>>>>> matches his gun
>>>>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun 
>>>>>> (and
>>>>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as 
>>>>>> matching
>>>>>> the rifling etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>>>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the 
>>>>>> jury
>>>>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so 
>>>>>> he may
>>>>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>>>>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>>>>> restore
>>>>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after 
>>>>> that
>>>>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
>>>> It can do.  We'll have to see.
>>> The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
>> What would that prove?  How do we know it was the bike used in the 
>> killing?
>
> It was a rare bike. The serial number on it was the same as Mercers. I'd 
> say that it was the bike.
>

And ?

"DerekF"  wrote in message 
news:1223740808_238369@news.usenet.com...
>
> "mert1639"  wrote in message 
> news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>>
>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>>
>>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>>>> Jones
>>>>> matches his gun
>>>>
>>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and
>>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching
>>>> the rifling etc.
>>>>
>>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>
>>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>>
>>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the 
>>>> jury
>>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to
>>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he 
>>>> may
>>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not 
>>>> get
>>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>>> restore
>>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after 
>>> that
>>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
>> It can do.  We'll have to see.
>
> The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
> Derek
>
>
There would be no DNA if it had been left in the open, or even cleaned up
by another person.  Not after a few months.  Why was the serial number
filed off and who did this?  Is the man making an excuse for being caught
with the bike?  Oh I found it!  Really?  So he just happened to miss all the
repeated TV and radio appeals for the bike.  I don't think so.

wrote in message 
news:209987bd-6cab-4f79-b26b-4a737cf84e30@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
> first!
>
I agree completely.  We have all heard and probably seen bent police on the 
news
over the years, police that fit people up, plant evidence, steal property 
and get away
with a lot of things.  Wasn't DCI Elmore Davies (head of drug squad) sacked 
because
he was one of the corrupt officers of Merseyside Police?  Mixed up with 
Curtis Warren
and others.  The MATRIX team have taken far too long to get the case 
together, so
I would say they have gone for the weakest person in a gang and tried to fit 
the case
around what they have.
I certainly don't have any respect for Merseyside Police.  More officers 
were charged
last year and will be going to Court soon.  Funny how they are fast tracked 
and often
have reporting restrictions.
Why will the Chief Constable not reveal the contents of his "Discipline 
Book" detailing
the criminal offences serving officers in Merseyside have been found guilty 
of and are
still serving police officers?
Once a police officer has committed a criminal offence they should be kicked 
out as
they can't be trusted.  Merseyside Police also refuse to test officers for 
anabolic steroids.
Bernard Hogan-Howe said he is not willing to as he knows officers take them.

Airmax wrote:
> 
> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
> news:gcqfdl$un6$1@aioe.org...
>> mert1639 wrote:
>>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>>> news:1223740808_238369@news.usenet.com...
>>>> "mert1639"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>>>>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>>>>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed 
>>>>>>>> Rhys Jones
>>>>>>>> matches his gun
>>>>>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the 
>>>>>>> gun (and
>>>>>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as 
>>>>>>> matching
>>>>>>> the rifling etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>>>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>>>>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise 
>>>>>>> the jury
>>>>>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the 
>>>>>>> jury to
>>>>>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, 
>>>>>>> so he may
>>>>>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably 
>>>>>>> not get
>>>>>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>>>>>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>>>>>> restore
>>>>>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike 
>>>>>> after that
>>>>>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
>>>>> It can do.  We'll have to see.
>>>> The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
>>> What would that prove?  How do we know it was the bike used in the 
>>> killing?
>>
>> It was a rare bike. The serial number on it was the same as Mercers. 
>> I'd say that it was the bike.
>>
> 
> And ?

So a Scouser kid from a hard up area buys an expensive bike and then 
dumps it? Come on!

Ian wrote:
>  wrote in message 
> news:209987bd-6cab-4f79-b26b-4a737cf84e30@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>> first!
>>
> I agree completely.  We have all heard and probably seen bent police on the 
> news
> over the years, police that fit people up, plant evidence, steal property 
> and get away
> with a lot of things.  Wasn't DCI Elmore Davies (head of drug squad) sacked 
> because
> he was one of the corrupt officers of Merseyside Police?  Mixed up with 
> Curtis Warren
> and others. 

All very true. Now listen carefully. Mercer ADMITTED shooting Rhys 
Jones. What part of that can you not understand?

"Airmax"  wrote in message 
news:AfCdnSoKlJDQFHLVnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message 
> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
>>> matches his gun
>>
>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and 
>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching 
>> the rifling etc.
>
>
>>
>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>
>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the 
>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the jury 
>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to 
>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>
>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he 
>> may be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not 
>> get much discount for pleading guilty.
> You cannot get a discount on a life sentence

on the "minimum term"

"DerekF"  wrote in message 
news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>
> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun
>>
>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun (and
>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as matching
>> the rifling etc.
>>
>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>
>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the jury
>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury to
>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>
>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so he 
>> may
>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not get
>> much discount for pleading guilty.
> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to restore
> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after that
> time does the DNA evidence live on?

Oh yes  - various pharohs and Csar Nicholas II...

> Derek.
>
>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>                http://www.usenet.com

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:00:04 +0100, Iggly Doodah wrote:

> So a Scouser kid from a hard up area buys an expensive bike and then dumps
> it? Come on!

Scousers don't pinch bikes?

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:01:57 +0100, Iggly Doodah 
wrote:

>Ian wrote:
>>  wrote in message 
>> news:209987bd-6cab-4f79-b26b-4a737cf84e30@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>>>
>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>>> first!
>>>
>> I agree completely.  We have all heard and probably seen bent police on the 
>> news
>> over the years, police that fit people up, plant evidence, steal property 
>> and get away
>> with a lot of things.  Wasn't DCI Elmore Davies (head of drug squad) sacked 
>> because
>> he was one of the corrupt officers of Merseyside Police?  Mixed up with 
>> Curtis Warren
>> and others. 
>
>All very true. Now listen carefully. Mercer ADMITTED shooting Rhys 
>Jones. What part of that can you not understand?

You heard him right? Or are you going on the word of a rival drug
dealer?

Keith2.0 wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:01:57 +0100, Iggly Doodah 
> wrote:
> 
>> Ian wrote:
>>>  wrote in message 
>>> news:209987bd-6cab-4f79-b26b-4a737cf84e30@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>> That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>> Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>>>> first!
>>>>
>>> I agree completely.  We have all heard and probably seen bent police on the 
>>> news
>>> over the years, police that fit people up, plant evidence, steal property 
>>> and get away
>>> with a lot of things.  Wasn't DCI Elmore Davies (head of drug squad) sacked 
>>> because
>>> he was one of the corrupt officers of Merseyside Police?  Mixed up with 
>>> Curtis Warren
>>> and others. 
>> All very true. Now listen carefully. Mercer ADMITTED shooting Rhys 
>> Jones. What part of that can you not understand?
> 
> You heard him right? Or are you going on the word of a rival drug
> dealer?

The grand mother was a rival drug dealer? Oh well it is Scouseland eh?

Something that crossed my mind re all this.
Had the accussed turned himself in that night, saying I was just shooting to 
warn off rivals/accident etc etc, would this have played out differently ?

Ian  posted
>So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals for 
>the bike.  I don't think so.

I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio appeal 
for anything, except Madeline McCann.

-- 
Les

Big Les Wade wrote:
> Ian  posted
>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals for 
>> the bike.  I don't think so.
> 
> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio appeal 
> for anything, except Madeline McCann.
> 

I don't remember any appeals for a bike.

> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.

there were pictures in the Echo and on the news...a Specialized Hardrock, 
black, I seem to recall.

BOFH wrote:
>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
> 
> there were pictures in the Echo and on the news...a Specialized Hardrock, 
> black, I seem to recall.
> 
> 
> 


Did Mercer report his missing to plod then?

Iggly Doodah wrote:

> Big Les Wade wrote:
>> Ian  posted

>>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals for 
>>> the bike.  I don't think so.

>> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio 
>> appeal for anything, except Madeline McCann.

> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.

I certainly remember appeals by he police for the whereabout of a particular 
bike, reported on TV news bulletins. I have no doubt it would have also been 
reported in the Liverpool Echo.

"Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
news:gcqfdl$un6$1@aioe.org...
> mert1639 wrote:
>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>> news:1223740808_238369@news.usenet.com...
>>> "mert1639"  wrote in message 
>>> news:gcqbbr$df5$1@frank-exchange-of-views.oucs.ox.ac.uk...
>>>> "DerekF"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:1223736797_238364@news.usenet.com...
>>>>> "R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:0qmdnT1wN87xxXLVnZ2dnUVZ8u6dnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>> "Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys 
>>>>>>> Jones
>>>>>>> matches his gun
>>>>>> the wound matches the tumble action of a bullet fired from the gun 
>>>>>> (and
>>>>>> probably any other reconvereted gun), but is not as damning as 
>>>>>> matching
>>>>>> the rifling etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>>> Is there firearm residue on the bicycle?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>>>> Probably because the witnesses will all contradict one another, the
>>>>>> forensic won't be clinically damning, and the judge will advise the 
>>>>>> jury
>>>>>> that as a result of all the confusion the judge will advise the jury 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OTOH they are only half way through the prosecution case so far, so 
>>>>>> he may
>>>>>> be up against it, however unlike say a robbery he would probably not 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> much discount for pleading guilty.
>>>>> The reports say said that a man found the bike and took it home to 
>>>>> restore
>>>>> for his children. Six months later he realises it is that bike after 
>>>>> that
>>>>> time does the DNA evidence live on?
>>>> It can do.  We'll have to see.
>>> The prosecution allege that the accused DNA was on it.
>> What would that prove?  How do we know it was the bike used in the 
>> killing?
>
> It was a rare bike. The serial number on it was the same as Mercers. I'd 
> say that it was the bike.
>
But did we get the serial number of the bike used to kill Rhys Jones? 
Mercer might well have owned this bike, but that doesn't prove it was 
involved in the killing.

"Barnacle Bill"  wrote in message 
news:gct0m4$193$2@aioe.org...
> BOFH wrote:
>>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
>>
>> there were pictures in the Echo and on the news...a Specialized Hardrock, 
>> black, I seem to recall.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Did Mercer report his missing to plod then?
>
I don't know about Merseyside plod but I wouldn't report a missing bike to 
Oxford plod.  It would be a waste of time.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:7Iqdnd5-LoJij2_VnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@pipex.net...
> Iggly Doodah wrote:
>
>> Big Les Wade wrote:
>>> Ian  posted
>
>>>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals for 
>>>> the bike.  I don't think so.
>
>>> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio appeal 
>>> for anything, except Madeline McCann.
>
>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
>
> I certainly remember appeals by he police for the whereabout of a 
> particular bike, reported on TV news bulletins. I have no doubt it would 
> have also been reported in the Liverpool Echo.

So What ??

Airmax wrote:
> 
> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
> news:7Iqdnd5-LoJij2_VnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@pipex.net...
>> Iggly Doodah wrote:
>>
>>> Big Les Wade wrote:
>>>> Ian  posted
>>
>>>>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals 
>>>>> for the bike.  I don't think so.
>>
>>>> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio 
>>>> appeal for anything, except Madeline McCann.
>>
>>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
>>
>> I certainly remember appeals by he police for the whereabout of a 
>> particular bike, reported on TV news bulletins. I have no doubt it 
>> would have also been reported in the Liverpool Echo.
> 
> So What ??

So the experience described by the PP (who might not even be in the UK, let 
alone in Liverpool) is not universal and proves precisely nothing?

That's the way I'd see it.

JNugent  posted
>Airmax wrote:
>>  "JNugent"  wrote in message 
>>news:7Iqdnd5-LoJij2_VnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@pipex.net...
>>> Iggly Doodah wrote:
>>>
>>>> Big Les Wade wrote:
>>>>> Ian  posted
>>>
>>>>>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals 
>>>>>>for the bike.  I don't think so.
>>>
>>>>> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio 
>>>>>appeal for anything, except Madeline McCann.
>>>
>>>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
>>>
>>> I certainly remember appeals by he police for the whereabout of a 
>>>particular bike, reported on TV news bulletins. I have no doubt it 
>>>would have also been reported in the Liverpool Echo.
>>  So What ??
>
>So the experience described by the PP (who might not even be in the UK, 
>let alone in Liverpool) is not universal and proves precisely nothing?

Of course it proves something. It proves that not everybody saw or heard 
the ads.

-- 
Les

Big Les Wade wrote:
> JNugent  posted
>> Airmax wrote:
>>>  "JNugent"  wrote in message 
>>> news:7Iqdnd5-LoJij2_VnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@pipex.net...
>>>> Iggly Doodah wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Big Les Wade wrote:
>>>>>> Ian  posted
>>>>
>>>>>>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals 
>>>>>>> for the bike.  I don't think so.
>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio 
>>>>>> appeal for anything, except Madeline McCann.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
>>>>
>>>> I certainly remember appeals by he police for the whereabout of a 
>>>> particular bike, reported on TV news bulletins. I have no doubt it 
>>>> would have also been reported in the Liverpool Echo.
>>>  So What ??

>> So the experience described by the PP (who might not even be in the 
>> UK, let alone in Liverpool) is not universal and proves precisely 
>> nothing?

> Of course it proves something. It proves that not everybody saw or heard 
> the ads

..which is only of relevance if those who didn't know of the appeal were in 
the coverage area. I wasn't, and even I heard about it.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:PfCdnYPo_L7DzG_VnZ2dnUVZ8szinZ2d@pipex.net...
> Big Les Wade wrote:
>> JNugent  posted
>>> Airmax wrote:
>>>>  "JNugent"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:7Iqdnd5-LoJij2_VnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@pipex.net...
>>>>> Iggly Doodah wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Big Les Wade wrote:
>>>>>>> Ian  posted
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio appeals 
>>>>>>>> for the bike.  I don't think so.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio 
>>>>>>> appeal for anything, except Madeline McCann.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly remember appeals by he police for the whereabout of a 
>>>>> particular bike, reported on TV news bulletins. I have no doubt it 
>>>>> would have also been reported in the Liverpool Echo.
>>>>  So What ??
>
>>> So the experience described by the PP (who might not even be in the UK, 
>>> let alone in Liverpool) is not universal and proves precisely nothing?
>
>> Of course it proves something. It proves that not everybody saw or heard 
>> the ads
>
> ..which is only of relevance if those who didn't know of the appeal were 
> in the coverage area. I wasn't, and even I heard about it.

I don't see the relevance at all, young scallys dont read the newspapers, 
nobody could seriously consider any of it as evidence of bike theft even.

JNugent wrote:
> Big Les Wade wrote:
>> JNugent  posted
>>> Airmax wrote:
>>>>  "JNugent"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:7Iqdnd5-LoJij2_VnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@pipex.net...
>>>>> Iggly Doodah wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Big Les Wade wrote:
>>>>>>> Ian  posted
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So he just happened to miss all the repeated TV and radio 
>>>>>>>> appeals for the bike.  I don't think so.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see why not. I have never in my life seen any TV or radio 
>>>>>>> appeal for anything, except Madeline McCann.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't remember any appeals for a bike.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly remember appeals by he police for the whereabout of a 
>>>>> particular bike, reported on TV news bulletins. I have no doubt it 
>>>>> would have also been reported in the Liverpool Echo.
>>>>  So What ??
> 
>>> So the experience described by the PP (who might not even be in the 
>>> UK, let alone in Liverpool) is not universal and proves precisely 
>>> nothing?
> 
>> Of course it proves something. It proves that not everybody saw or 
>> heard the ads
> 
> ..which is only of relevance if those who didn't know of the appeal were 
> in the coverage area. I wasn't, and even I heard about it.

Well I wasn't in the area and never heard any appeal so let's play 
roundabouts.

"Iggly Doodah"  wrote in message 
news:gcnj6t$89j$1@aioe.org...
> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones 
> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>
> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
How naive. You have too much faith in the English legal system mate.

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:05:21 +0100, Pete M
 wrote:

>Yeah yeah. It just amused me that his was the name that was mentioned at 
>the time and he's the fucker they've collared for it.
>
>Not very often the windowlickers who post comments on youtube are right 
>about something, but this time it's looking like they are.

Either that or the police saw the youtube allegation as well, and
decided to go with it after they couldn't find anything better to go
with.

-- 
Cynic

On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT), Jethro
 wrote:

>On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>
>ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
>scrutiny that a trial brings ...

Please explain how the prosecution would be able to reject a guilty
plea (I assume you meant "plea" rather than "verdict")

I can just picture it:

Defence lawyer - "My client intends to plead guilty."
Prosecution lawyer, "No!  I think he is innocent, you must persuade
him to plead not guilty!"

-- 
Cynic

Cynic wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT), Jethro
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>> ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>> reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
>> scrutiny that a trial brings ...
> 
> Please explain how the prosecution would be able to reject a guilty
> plea (I assume you meant "plea" rather than "verdict")
> 
> I can just picture it:
> 
> Defence lawyer - "My client intends to plead guilty."
> Prosecution lawyer, "No!  I think he is innocent, you must persuade
> him to plead not guilty!"
> 

There are certainly cases where a judge has refused to accept a guilty plea.

"Cynic"  wrote in message 
news:cgv8f4h9mt5gi1c8uqiq8adelaj9v7neok@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT), Jethro
>  wrote:
>
>>On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>
>>ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>>reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
>>scrutiny that a trial brings ...
>
> Please explain how the prosecution would be able to reject a guilty
> plea (I assume you meant "plea" rather than "verdict")
>
> I can just picture it:
>
> Defence lawyer - "My client intends to plead guilty."
> Prosecution lawyer, "No!  I think he is innocent, you must persuade
> him to plead not guilty!"
>
I'm sure it has happened in murder trials before.  Did a somthing like that 
happen with Peter Sutcliffe?  There have certainly been examples of refuslas 
to accept guilty pleas.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:38:57 +0100, Humpty Eggy  wrote:

>> Please explain how the prosecution would be able to reject a guilty
>> plea (I assume you meant "plea" rather than "verdict")
 
>> I can just picture it:
 
>> Defence lawyer - "My client intends to plead guilty."
>> Prosecution lawyer, "No!  I think he is innocent, you must persuade
>> him to plead not guilty!"

>There are certainly cases where a judge has refused to accept a guilty plea.

The only scenario I can think of where that is possible is if the
defendant's mitigation amounts to a defence.

-- 
Cynic

mert1639 wrote:
> "Cynic"  wrote in message 
> news:cgv8f4h9mt5gi1c8uqiq8adelaj9v7neok@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT), Jethro
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>> ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>>> reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
>>> scrutiny that a trial brings ...
>> Please explain how the prosecution would be able to reject a guilty
>> plea (I assume you meant "plea" rather than "verdict")
>>
>> I can just picture it:
>>
>> Defence lawyer - "My client intends to plead guilty."
>> Prosecution lawyer, "No!  I think he is innocent, you must persuade
>> him to plead not guilty!"
>>
> I'm sure it has happened in murder trials before.  Did a somthing like that 
> happen with Peter Sutcliffe?

That was the court's rfusal to accept a plea of guilty to manslaughter (as 
opposed to murder), wasn't it?

In effect, the prosecution were arguing that guilty to manslaughter wasn't 
"good" enough and that they wanted a verdict of guilty of murder.

> There have certainly been examples of refuslas to accept guilty pleas.
> 
>

wrote in message 
news:rncve4tokt5th91artqep9aoh1be0os656@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:28:44 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
>  wrote:
>
>>Jethro wrote:
>>> On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys
>>>> Jones matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number
>>>> matches his.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>>>
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663223.stm
>>>
>>> ISTR reading a while ago that in *serious* cases, the prosecution are
>>> reluctant to accept a "guilty" verdict, as it effectively bypasses the
>>> scrutiny that a trial brings ...
>>
>>Such a course enables the judge to assess the relative guilt of each
>>participant, and indeed, the jury to acquit those who have not been proved
>>to have taken any part in the crime. Let's not forget there are seven
>>co-accused here, and nobody ever pleads guilty to murder in Liverpool
>>(unless things have changed a lot in the last 30 years!)
>>
>>
>
> Liverpool?  Have I missed something, care to explain...

Nobody ever pleads guilty to anything in Liverpool.  Do you remember Ken 
Dodd and the "Cash in the Attic" case brought by HMRC.  Idiotically they 
didn't try and get the trial moved somewhere else.  I can't remember exactly 
what the defence was (the Diddymen hid it there?), but whatever it was the 
local jury accepted it and threw the case out.

IIRC retail leakage is ~400% higher in Liverpool than elsewhere and you 
can't get insurance for burglary in several L post codes etc. etc.

In message , Tessy 
 writes
>On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 07:36:41 -0700 (PDT), theodoredice@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>>On 10 Oct, 13:52, Iggly Doodah  wrote:
>>> It's not looking good for Sean Mercer. The bullet that killed Rhys Jones
>>> matches his gun and the stripped bikes frame serial number matches his.
>>
>>That's a lot of assumptions. *His* gun, *his* bike? *The* bike?
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder why he is bothering to plead not guilty.
>>
>>Maybe he's innocent? Okay, maybe unlikely, but let's hear the defence
>>first!
>
>Do I hear presumption of innocence mentioned?

Quite.

A not guilty plea can simply mean, "Prove it".

With a murder case, there is little incentive to plead guilty, since the 
outcome if convicted is a mandatory life sentence, so why not take your 
chance?
-- 
Richard Miller