It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now 
totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of MUHAMMAD 
! !

On 5 Nov, 18:07, "Pellucid"  wrote:
> It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now
> totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of MUHAMMAD
> ! !

Now this is going too far!! His fight against Frazier in 1975 remains
one of my great sporting memories, and as for Forman in '74, well who
could forget that? There is no way that this great sporting legend
should be put on a bonfire, it is absolutely disgraceful.

You should be ashamed (again).

Appalled regards,

Lou

"LouSmorals"  wrote in message 
news:28542a1d-f40a-461c-82e6-a6ad2dacfafb@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On 5 Nov, 18:07, "Pellucid"  wrote:
>> It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now
>> totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of 
>> MUHAMMAD
>> ! !
>
> Now this is going too far!! His fight against Frazier in 1975 remains
> one of my great sporting memories, and as for Forman in '74, well who
> could forget that? There is no way that this great sporting legend
> should be put on a bonfire, it is absolutely disgraceful.
>
> You should be ashamed (again).
>
> Appalled regards,
>
> Lou
>
Ali of course changed his name, from Cassius Clay to Muhammad 
li, -Why?  -it is obvious,... then, he probably did not even know about the 
Irish side of his family, but of course knew all about the 'Black Power' 
movement, which would see him as a front-man.  So what is/was one of the 
classic moves of protest about his white history/white subsumation, he 
joined the 'Nation of Islam' otherwise known as the 'Black Muslims'  who 
inherently hated 'whites' and used the idea of Islam to distance themselves 
from the evil 'whites', (christians).   The fact that Clay has 'white' blood 
in his family is something he has only acknowleged recently.

In article , pellucid@total-
insanity.co.uk says...
> "LouSmorals"  wrote in message 
> news:28542a1d-f40a-461c-82e6-a6ad2dacfafb@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> > On 5 Nov, 18:07, "Pellucid"  wrote:
> >> It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now
> >> totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of 
> >> MUHAMMAD
> >> ! !
> >
> > Now this is going too far!! His fight against Frazier in 1975 remains
> > one of my great sporting memories, and as for Forman in '74, well who
> > could forget that? There is no way that this great sporting legend
> > should be put on a bonfire, it is absolutely disgraceful.
> >
> > You should be ashamed (again).
> >
> > Appalled regards,
> >
> > Lou
> >
> Ali of course changed his name, from Cassius Clay to Muhammad 
> li, -Why?  -it is obvious,... then, he probably did not even know about the 
> Irish side of his family, but of course knew all about the 'Black Power' 
> movement, which would see him as a front-man.  So what is/was one of the 
> classic moves of protest about his white history/white subsumation, he 
> joined the 'Nation of Islam' otherwise known as the 'Black Muslims'  who 
> inherently hated 'whites' 

Whoa there, huge leap of illogic detected. I never got the impression that 
Ali hated whites. Which is odd, because you could argue it's the white guys 
who run the boxing world who are responsible for the state he's in.

-- 
Halmyre

This is the most powerful sigfile in the world and will probably blow your 
head clean off.

Pellucid wrote:
> "LouSmorals"  wrote in message 
> news:28542a1d-f40a-461c-82e6-a6ad2dacfafb@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> On 5 Nov, 18:07, "Pellucid"  wrote:
>>> It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now
>>> totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of 
>>> MUHAMMAD
>>> ! !
>> Now this is going too far!! His fight against Frazier in 1975 remains
>> one of my great sporting memories, and as for Forman in '74, well who
>> could forget that? There is no way that this great sporting legend
>> should be put on a bonfire, it is absolutely disgraceful.
>>
>> You should be ashamed (again).
>>
>> Appalled regards,
>>
>> Lou
>>
> Ali of course changed his name, from Cassius Clay to Muhammad 
> li, -Why?  -it is obvious,... then, he probably did not even know about the 
> Irish side of his family, but of course knew all about the 'Black Power' 
> movement, which would see him as a front-man.  So what is/was one of the 
> classic moves of protest about his white history/white subsumation, he 
> joined the 'Nation of Islam' otherwise known as the 'Black Muslims'  who 
> inherently hated 'whites' and used the idea of Islam to distance themselves 
> from the evil 'whites', (christians).   The fact that Clay has 'white' blood 
> in his family is something he has only acknowleged recently. 
> 
> 

The Africans who were captured and sold (that it was by their fellow 
Africans is not unknown to their modern descendents)  to the 17th 
century European traders to work as slaves on the plantations of the 
Caribbean and North and South America were already Muslims. Christianity 
never got down below the Tropic of Cancer until the early days of the 
British Empire (or Spanish/French/Dutch). Before that, they had no 
knowledge of the "white", European man's ways, much less any reason to 
hate him before their enslavement. It's not just spite.

Jp

JpinNY wrote:
> Pellucid wrote:
>> "LouSmorals"  wrote in message 
>> news:28542a1d-f40a-461c-82e6-a6ad2dacfafb@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 5 Nov, 18:07, "Pellucid"  wrote:
>>>> It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now
>>>> totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of 
>>>> MUHAMMAD
>>>> ! !
>>> Now this is going too far!! His fight against Frazier in 1975 remains
>>> one of my great sporting memories, and as for Forman in '74, well who
>>> could forget that? There is no way that this great sporting legend
>>> should be put on a bonfire, it is absolutely disgraceful.
>>>
>>> You should be ashamed (again).
>>>
>>> Appalled regards,
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> Ali of course changed his name, from Cassius Clay to Muhammad li, 
>> -Why?  -it is obvious,... then, he probably did not even know about 
>> the Irish side of his family, but of course knew all about the 'Black 
>> Power' movement, which would see him as a front-man.  So what is/was 
>> one of the classic moves of protest about his white history/white 
>> subsumation, he joined the 'Nation of Islam' otherwise known as the 
>> 'Black Muslims'  who inherently hated 'whites' and used the idea of 
>> Islam to distance themselves from the evil 'whites', (christians).   
>> The fact that Clay has 'white' blood in his family is something he has 
>> only acknowleged recently.
>>
> 
> The Africans who were captured and sold (that it was by their fellow 
> Africans is not unknown to their modern descendents)  to the 17th 
> century European traders to work as slaves on the plantations of the 
> Caribbean and North and South America were already Muslims. Christianity 
> never got down below the Tropic of Cancer until the early days of the 
> British Empire (or Spanish/French/Dutch). Before that, they had no 
> knowledge of the "white", European man's ways, much less any reason to 
> hate him before their enslavement. It's not just spite.
> 
> Jp


We have no idea whether the 'Irish side' of his family was either a 
family of  Irish bondsmen, (along with poor English, Scots and Welsh 
bondsmen who were the forerunners of the conscripts who were sent to 
Australia) of either gender forced to breed with Africans on 
plantations,  or the name of family who owned his forebears, and 
possibly interbred without formal recognition of sons and daughters who 
were children of African parents and European owners.

There is no reason to sneer at anyone's ancestry, but I can understand 
why Muhammad Ali might want to think about it.

Jp

"JpinNY"  wrote in message news:hdal3q$aa$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Pellucid wrote:
>> "LouSmorals"  wrote in message 
>> news:28542a1d-f40a-461c-82e6-a6ad2dacfafb@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 5 Nov, 18:07, "Pellucid"  wrote:
>>>> It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now
>>>> totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of MUHAMMAD
>>>> ! !
>>> Now this is going too far!! His fight against Frazier in 1975 remains
>>> one of my great sporting memories, and as for Forman in '74, well who
>>> could forget that? There is no way that this great sporting legend
>>> should be put on a bonfire, it is absolutely disgraceful.
>>>
>>> You should be ashamed (again).
>>>
>>> Appalled regards,
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> Ali of course changed his name, from Cassius Clay to Muhammad li, -Why?  -it is obvious,... then, he probably did not even know 
>> about the Irish side of his family, but of course knew all about the 'Black Power' movement, which would see him as a front-man. 
>> So what is/was one of the classic moves of protest about his white history/white subsumation, he joined the 'Nation of Islam' 
>> otherwise known as the 'Black Muslims'  who inherently hated 'whites' and used the idea of Islam to distance themselves from the 
>> evil 'whites', (christians).   The fact that Clay has 'white' blood in his family is something he has only acknowleged recently.
>
> The Africans who were captured and sold (that it was by their fellow Africans is not unknown to their modern descendents)  to the 
> 17th century European traders to work as slaves on the plantations of the Caribbean and North and South America were already 
> Muslims. Christianity never got down below the Tropic of Cancer until the early days of the British Empire (or 
> Spanish/French/Dutch). Before that, they had no knowledge of the "white", European man's ways, much less any reason to hate him 
> before their enslavement. It's not just spite.
>
> Jp

No, but it's a bit like the second world war. Never ending.

Wise old Chinese proverb : If you harp on the past, future never come.

Edith.



Muslims fought in the Indian army for the crown and the commonwealth.

"JpinNY"  wrote in message 
news:hdal3q$aa$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Pellucid wrote:
>> "LouSmorals"  wrote in message 
>> news:28542a1d-f40a-461c-82e6-a6ad2dacfafb@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 5 Nov, 18:07, "Pellucid"  wrote:
>>>> It is obvious that the burning effigies of the Pope on 5th Nov. is now
>>>> totally out of date, what we should be doing is burning effigies of 
>>>> MUHAMMAD
>>>> ! !
>>> Now this is going too far!! His fight against Frazier in 1975 remains
>>> one of my great sporting memories, and as for Forman in '74, well who
>>> could forget that? There is no way that this great sporting legend
>>> should be put on a bonfire, it is absolutely disgraceful.
>>>
>>> You should be ashamed (again).
>>>
>>> Appalled regards,
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>
>> Ali of course changed his name, from Cassius Clay to Muhammad 
>> i, -Why?  -it is obvious,... then, he probably did not even know about 
>> the Irish side of his family, but of course knew all about the 'Black 
>> Power' movement, which would see him as a front-man.  So what is/was one 
>> of the classic moves of protest about his white history/white 
>> subsumation, he joined the 'Nation of Islam' otherwise known as the 
>> 'Black Muslims'  who inherently hated 'whites' and used the idea of Islam 
>> to distance themselves from the evil 'whites', (christians).   The fact 
>> that Clay has 'white' blood in his family is something he has only 
>> acknowleged recently.
>
> The Africans who were captured and sold (that it was by their fellow 
> Africans is not unknown to their modern descendents)  to the 17th century 
> European traders to work as slaves on the plantations of the Caribbean and 
> North and South America were already Muslims. Christianity never got down 
> below the Tropic of Cancer until the early days of the British Empire (or 
> Spanish/French/Dutch). Before that, they had no knowledge of the "white", 
> European man's ways, much less any reason to hate him before their 
> enslavement. It's not just spite.
>
> Jp
You say that the enslaved Africans that were sold to the European Traders in 
Africa were already Muslims, but that was not neccesarily the case, because 
of course Islam was invented over 600 years after the invention of 
Christianity. Also, the Africans often kept to their own beliefs.  True, it 
was the Arab (Muslim) traders that enslaved the Africans, and exported/sold 
them to the West, and also to the East.