"The Traveller"  wrote:

re: security lights.

>We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and doesn't 
>point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last winter. Think 
>I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a load of 
>wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark with a half 
>full container.
>
>Edith 5volts.

Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)

"Sleepalot"  wrote in message 
news:8e2he45cqdklutq1tkt9hbes2tcrcmlm7a@4ax.com...
> "The Traveller"  wrote:
>
> re: security lights.
>
>>We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and doesn't
>>point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last winter. 
>>Think
>>I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>>Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a load 
>>of
>>wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark with a 
>>half
>>full container.
>>
>>Edith 5volts.
>
> Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)

Did :0P  Burned it up.

Edith-How about some pictures of your attic and house and moggy?

On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:47:31 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:

>> We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and 
>> doesn't point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last 
>> winter. Think I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>> Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a 
>> load of wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark 
>> with a half full container.
> 
> Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)

The pragmatic solution.

What does Edith mean my a "timer"? 

A simple time switch that switches it on from W hrs to X hrs?
A time switch that you manually trigger and the light stays on for Y 
minutes?
A automatic time switch that switches the light on automatically when it 
"sees" movement and then stays on for Z minuets after the last bit of 
movement it sees? That is a PIR type lamp, that will have a small 
white/grey translucent sensor window somewhere, could be remote from the 
actual lamp.

The last normally have three adjustments, sensitivity to movement (so 
small warm blooded animals don't set it off), light level (so it doesn't 
come on when it's day light) and duration (how long it stays on after the 
last detection of movement). These adjustment are normally on the outside 
housing of the sensor and can be adjusted with having to expose any of the 
live wiring.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Sleepalot"  wrote in message 
news:8e2he45cqdklutq1tkt9hbes2tcrcmlm7a@4ax.com...
> "The Traveller"  wrote:
>
> re: security lights.
>
>>We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and doesn't
>>point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last winter. 
>>Think
>>I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>>Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a load 
>>of
>>wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark with a 
>>half
>>full container.
>>
>>Edith 5volts.
>
> Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)

isn't it dark there from tomorrow to Easter?

Al 


       ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k89vhy1.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:47:31 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:
>
>>> We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and
>>> doesn't point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last
>>> winter. Think I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>>> Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a
>>> load of wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark
>>> with a half full container.
>>
>> Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)
>
> The pragmatic solution.
>
> What does Edith mean my a "timer"?
>
> A simple time switch that switches it on from W hrs to X hrs?
> A time switch that you manually trigger and the light stays on for Y
> minutes?
> A automatic time switch that switches the light on automatically when it
> "sees" movement and then stays on for Z minuets after the last bit of
> movement it sees? That is a PIR type lamp, that will have a small
> white/grey translucent sensor window somewhere, could be remote from the
> actual lamp.

we have those in the office in the new building, they're timed to turn the 
lights off at 7 pm on Sunday.  First time it happened I assumed the security 
guard had turned them off so I shouted to turn them back on.  Now I tilt my 
chair back and wave my arm and the whole area is lit up again.

Al 


       ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k89vhy1.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:47:31 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:
>
>>> We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and
>>> doesn't point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last
>>> winter. Think I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>>> Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a
>>> load of wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark
>>> with a half full container.
>>
>> Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)
>
> The pragmatic solution.
>
> What does Edith mean my a "timer"?

An old timer. Like Gabby (tittet)
>
> A simple time switch that switches it on from W hrs to X hrs?
> A time switch that you manually trigger and the light stays on for Y
> minutes?
> A automatic time switch that switches the light on automatically when it
> "sees" movement and then stays on for Z minuets after the last bit of
> movement it sees? That is a PIR type lamp, that will have a small
> white/grey translucent sensor window somewhere, could be remote from the
> actual lamp.

EH? I'm glad you know your alphabet.
>
> The last normally have three adjustments, sensitivity to movement (so
> small warm blooded animals don't set it off), light level (so it doesn't
> come on when it's day light) and duration (how long it stays on after the
> last detection of movement). These adjustment are normally on the outside
> housing of the sensor and can be adjusted with having to expose any of the
> live wiring.
>
> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave.
>
Yes. Yes. That's right. Yes. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOrrrllllllly. Damsel in 
distress.

Edith.

"Alfred Packer"  wrote in message 
news:1223213549_4969@pro-front01.com...
>
> "Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
> news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k89vhy1.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
>> On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 10:47:31 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:
>>
>>>> We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and
>>>> doesn't point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last
>>>> winter. Think I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>>>> Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a
>>>> load of wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark
>>>> with a half full container.
>>>
>>> Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)
>>
>> The pragmatic solution.
>>
>> What does Edith mean my a "timer"?
>>
>> A simple time switch that switches it on from W hrs to X hrs?
>> A time switch that you manually trigger and the light stays on for Y
>> minutes?
>> A automatic time switch that switches the light on automatically when it
>> "sees" movement and then stays on for Z minuets after the last bit of
>> movement it sees? That is a PIR type lamp, that will have a small
>> white/grey translucent sensor window somewhere, could be remote from the
>> actual lamp.
>
> we have those in the office in the new building, they're timed to turn the 
> lights off at 7 pm on Sunday.  First time it happened I assumed the 
> security guard had turned them off so I shouted to turn them back on.  Now 
> I tilt my chair back and wave my arm and the whole area is lit up again.
>
> Al

LOL. Do you get any work done in such circumstances, Al?

Edith Soggyfruit.

"Alfred Packer"  wrote in message 
news:1223213311_4968@pro-front01.com...
>
> "Sleepalot"  wrote in message 
> news:8e2he45cqdklutq1tkt9hbes2tcrcmlm7a@4ax.com...
>> "The Traveller"  wrote:
>>
>> re: security lights.
>>
>>>We have ours on a timer and the daft thing turns off too early and 
>>>doesn't
>>>point right and it's irritating. Orly is going to fix it, last winter. 
>>>Think
>>>I'll have a go at it now that the dark nights are here.
>>>Any tips, Sleeps.? Like, turn the mains off first.? I was getting a load 
>>>of
>>>wood in last night for the stove and suddenly I was in the dark with a 
>>>half
>>>full container.
>>>
>>>Edith 5volts.
>>
>> Could you fetch in some wood in daylight?  ;-)
>
> isn't it dark there from tomorrow to Easter?
>
> Al
Solfesten på Rjukan  (Sun fest at Rjukan after 5 months without sun when it 
comes back they party) 
http://www.visitrjukan.com/?c=3&lang=no&TLcc=7500002&tf=26

That is Rjukan, Al, where you have been. Not so far from here.

Edith

On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 08:38:55 -0500, Alfred Packer wrote:

> we have those in the office in the new building, they're timed to turn 
> the lights off at 7 pm on Sunday.  First time it happened I assumed the 
> security guard had turned them off so I shouted to turn them back on.  
> Now I tilt my chair back and wave my arm and the whole area is lit up 
> again.

I would hope they are set to turn of at 1900 every day. How many office 
blocks do you see with floors of lights all blazing away right through the 
night when you know full well there is nobody actually there. 

With the normal working time of 9-5 M-F that's a total of 23% of the hours 
in week. OK you need a hour or so each side for cleaners or late/early 
workers so lets say 12hrs/day 5 days a week as a realistinc need for 
lighting that's still only 35% of the time! So why have the lights on when 
no body is there, think of the saving on the power bill if nothing else! 
Same applies to all the workstation PC's and monitors.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k8bll14.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 08:38:55 -0500, Alfred Packer wrote:
>
>> we have those in the office in the new building, they're timed to turn
>> the lights off at 7 pm on Sunday.  First time it happened I assumed the
>> security guard had turned them off so I shouted to turn them back on.
>> Now I tilt my chair back and wave my arm and the whole area is lit up
>> again.
>
> I would hope they are set to turn of at 1900 every day. How many office
> blocks do you see with floors of lights all blazing away right through the
> night when you know full well there is nobody actually there.
>
> With the normal working time of 9-5 M-F that's a total of 23% of the hours
> in week. OK you need a hour or so each side for cleaners or late/early
> workers so lets say 12hrs/day 5 days a week as a realistinc need for
> lighting that's still only 35% of the time! So why have the lights on when
> no body is there, think of the saving on the power bill if nothing else!
> Same applies to all the workstation PC's and monitors.
>
> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave.
>
Errrm, are you giving the cleaners one hour or so, to clean up after you 
messy lot. It takes 15 minutes just to clean one the loo. A cleaner can't 
live on two hours daily work even if they clean 7 days a week. Shame on you 
David.

Edith Washerwoman.

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:32 +0200, The Traveller wrote:

>> OK you need a hour or so each side for cleaners or late/early workers 
>> so lets say 12hrs/day 5 days a week as a realistinc need for lighting 
>
> Errrm, are you giving the cleaners one hour or so, to clean up after you 
> messy lot. 

12hrs/day is 4 over the normal working day...

> It takes 15 minutes just to clean one the loo. 

A loo that is filthy maybe but one that was cleaned only the night before 
shouldn't take that long...

And why does the cleaner in the loo need the lights on in the office?

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k8bswv0.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:32 +0200, The Traveller wrote:
>
>>> OK you need a hour or so each side for cleaners or late/early workers
>>> so lets say 12hrs/day 5 days a week as a realistinc need for lighting
>>
>> Errrm, are you giving the cleaners one hour or so, to clean up after you
>> messy lot.
>
> 12hrs/day is 4 over the normal working day...
>
>> It takes 15 minutes just to clean one the loo.
>
> A loo that is filthy maybe but one that was cleaned only the night before
> shouldn't take that long...
>
> And why does the cleaner in the loo need the lights on in the office?
>
> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave.
>
Hypothetically?

Edith, Bong! Bong!

"The Traveller"  wrote:

>Edith-How about some pictures of your attic and house and moggy? 

I still haven't got a camera. I'm thinking about one of these...
http://cpc.farnell.com/CS12753/cameras-photography/product.us0?sku=rectron-electronics-dv6800s

...which I like the versatility of, but I don't know if it'd be any
good for "macro" shots [1].

I'd like to be able to take pics of very small
plants/flowers/insects...

On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:22:17 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:

> >Edith-How about some pictures of your attic and house and moggy? 
> 
> I still haven't got a camera. I'm thinking about one of these...

Hum, looks like the native spec of the sensor is only 640 x 480 pretty 
pathetic by modern digital stills camera standards. OK it says it can 
interpolate 2816 x 2112 but that can only be guessing at the value for 
most of the pixels.

> I'd like to be able to take pics of very small plants/flowers/insects...

I doubt it'll do that very well, if at all. 

Which is your biggest need/want, movies or stills? Most stills cameras 
have a movie mode suitable for short bits of movie, say up to 10 mins 
single movie shot, if you have a 1Gig memory card installed.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k8bswv0.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:32 +0200, The Traveller wrote:
>
>>> OK you need a hour or so each side for cleaners or late/early workers
>>> so lets say 12hrs/day 5 days a week as a realistinc need for lighting
>>
>> Errrm, are you giving the cleaners one hour or so, to clean up after you
>> messy lot.
>
> 12hrs/day is 4 over the normal working day...

it may be in the UK but we're multinational, my colleague starts at 4:30 am 
and works 3 1/2 days a week.  Others start between 5 and 6 am to prepare for 
the several conference calls with the Bombay office and suppliers in India 
which usually take place between 6 and 7 am.. I usually start at around 7 am 
and leave between 6 and 7 pm.  There is usually someone in at least two 
areas of the office seven days a week.

>
>> It takes 15 minutes just to clean one the loo.

ours get cleaned during the day on a continuous rotation.

Al 


       ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:22:17 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:
>
>> >Edith-How about some pictures of your attic and house and moggy? 
>> 
>> I still haven't got a camera. I'm thinking about one of these...
>
>Hum, looks like the native spec of the sensor is only 640 x 480 pretty 
>pathetic by modern digital stills camera standards. OK it says it can 
>interpolate 2816 x 2112 but that can only be guessing at the value for 
>most of the pixels.
>
>> I'd like to be able to take pics of very small plants/flowers/insects...
>
>I doubt it'll do that very well, if at all. 

Aye, I suspected as much.

>Which is your biggest need/want,

want - it's a toy

> movies or stills?

Stills, I suppose. I guess I'd mostly use it to record things
I see so that I can identify them later, and to get a better
view of small things and distant things. (An extension to
my eyesight and memory.)

> Most stills cameras have a movie mode suitable for short 
> bits of movie, say up to 10 mins single movie shot, if you 
> have a 1Gig memory card installed.

Ar, that could be handy. So I'd be better off looking at stills
cameras? Any recommendations?

"Alfred Packer"  wrote in message 
news:1223213549_4969@pro-front01.com...
>
> we have those in the office in the new building, they're timed to turn the 
> lights off at 7 pm on Sunday.  First time it happened I assumed the 
> security guard had turned them off so I shouted to turn them back on.  Now 
> I tilt my chair back and wave my arm and the whole area is lit up again.
>
Some years ago I was with friends in one of those areas outside a pub with 
tables where you can sit when the weather's decent, and it was getting dark. 
People were coming and going so we weren't aware that the only lighting was 
provided by security lights until everyone sat down and the movement 
stopped. For the rest of our visit we had to get up every few minutes to 
wave our arms around under the sensor.

ally

"Alfred Packer"  wrote in message 
news:1223337659_5025@pro-front01.com...
>
> it may be in the UK but we're multinational, my colleague starts at 4:30 
> am and works 3 1/2 days a week.  Others start between 5 and 6 am to 
> prepare for the several conference calls with the Bombay office and 
> suppliers in India which usually take place between 6 and 7 am.. I usually 
> start at around 7 am and leave between 6 and 7 pm.  There is usually 
> someone in at least two areas of the office seven days a week.
>
You're at work nearly 12 hours a day? Crikey.

ally-impressed

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:24:40 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:

> Stills, I suppose. I guess I'd mostly use it to record things I see so 
> that I can identify them later, and to get a better view of small things 
> and distant things. (An extension to my eyesight and memory.)
>
>> Most stills cameras have a movie mode suitable for short 
>> bits of movie, ...
> 
> Ar, that could be handy. So I'd be better off looking at stills cameras? 

I think so, with the requirement for distant things look for a good 
optical zoom range. Digital zoom is pants, though with a really high 
native resolution sensor (10Mp+) you might get away with it a bit better 
than on my cameras (both around the 3M pixel resolution).

> Any recommendations?

Not really, things move too fast. www.dpreview.com might be worth a gander 
but I don't know if that site covers the cheapo odd brands or just the 
known ones like Canon, Minolta, Nikon, etc.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:33:47 +0100, a l l y wrote:

> You're at work nearly 12 hours a day? Crikey.

Depends how many days he does. 3.5 * 12 is 42hrs less meals of say 5.5hrs 
gives 36.5 hrs working about the same as a 9-5 M-F wage slave.

A twelve hour working day for me is the normal, a "short" day is 8. In the 
past I've been doing 6 or 5 x 12 hrs days for a fortnight. That really is 
knackering, all you do is sleep and work. Not good, at least we have the 
Working Time Directive now which in theory limits the number of hours/week 
and more importantly guarantees minimum breaks between personal duty times 
and breaks during the working day.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k8dj610.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:33:47 +0100, a l l y wrote:
>
>> You're at work nearly 12 hours a day? Crikey.
>
> Depends how many days he does. 3.5 * 12 is 42hrs less meals of say 5.5hrs
> gives 36.5 hrs working about the same as a 9-5 M-F wage slave.
>
> A twelve hour working day for me is the normal, a "short" day is 8. In the
> past I've been doing 6 or 5 x 12 hrs days for a fortnight. That really is
> knackering, all you do is sleep and work. Not good, at least we have the
> Working Time Directive now which in theory limits the number of hours/week
> and more importantly guarantees minimum breaks between personal duty times
> and breaks during the working day.
>
Goodness. I'm glad I'm self-employed. Mind you, it's hard to work out how 
many hours I work. I've been known to work on a cane chair for several hours 
in the evening while watching TV, or work on a client's website after 
midnight, just because I'm awake and unlikely to be disturbed by the phone. 
But somehow it doesn't seem so much like work when you're doing it on your 
own premises.

ally

>> Stills, I suppose. I guess I'd mostly use it to record things I see
>> so that I can identify them later, and to get a better view of small
>> things and distant things. (An extension to my eyesight and memory.)
>>
>>> Most stills cameras have a movie mode suitable for short 
>>> bits of movie, ...
>> 
>> Ar, that could be handy. So I'd be better off looking at stills
>> cameras? 
> 
> I think so, with the requirement for distant things look for a good 
> optical zoom range. Digital zoom is pants, though with a really high 
> native resolution sensor (10Mp+) you might get away with it a bit
> better than on my cameras (both around the 3M pixel resolution).
> 
>> Any recommendations?
> 
> Not really, things move too fast. www.dpreview.com might be worth a
> gander but I don't know if that site covers the cheapo odd brands or
> just the known ones like Canon, Minolta, Nikon, etc.

That's all good advice, Sleepy. The cheaper point and shoot cameras, like 
mine, are usually 3X optical zoom. That means the optics are too poor to 
zoom any further. At 3X zoom my camera takes noticibly poorer photos - 
the optics are so weak. I use it for landscapes mostly and it shows there 
too. They are best for close-ups of people really. The kind of photos 
kids like to take of each other at parties.

You have to pay for better optics however. You get better optics from 
'camera' companies (Nikon, Canon etc) than electronic companies (Sony, 
Panasonic etc) as a general rule of thumb.

You can get it all in a camera but I'll bet you'd have to pay out £400 or 
more to be really satisfied with the photos.

You could just jump in anywhere you can afford and make the best of what 
you get. That's what most people do. It's not so bad. Way better than 
nothing.

My camera is only 4 Mp, crappy optics. Not very good in Macro mode 
either. But it's portable, runs forever on a pair of Lithium AA's, and 
will record movies of about an hour on a 1 Gb memory stick at 15fps which 
look pretty good. My previous 3 Mp was better in many still photo 
respects. And my first digital was only 640x480 but had the best optics 
of all and excellent Macro node. I still use it in the lab for that.

My daughter has the best camera in the house - a '35mm' 10 Mp digital 
with removable lens' but she bought herself a small point and shoot too 
to carry around in her purse. Her phone also has a camera. She's just 
spoiled. My son uses his very expensive video camera for stills but they 
are really poor. Any cheap point and shoot would do better.

My wife has an 8 Mp point and shoot which is fairly new and takes great 
photos - a Canon or Olympus I think. It was an award from work.

Johnny-bits-and-pieces

>> it may be in the UK but we're multinational, my colleague starts at
>> 4:30 am and works 3 1/2 days a week.  Others start between 5 and 6 am
>> to prepare for the several conference calls with the Bombay office
>> and suppliers in India which usually take place between 6 and 7 am..
>> I usually start at around 7 am and leave between 6 and 7 pm.  There
>> is usually someone in at least two areas of the office seven days a
>> week. 
>>
> You're at work nearly 12 hours a day? Crikey.
> 
> ally-impressed 

So am I. So is my wife. That's modern civilization for you.

Johnny-sometimes-14

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:49:16 +0100, a l l y wrote:

>> A twelve hour working day for me is the normal, a "short" day is 8. In 
>> the past I've been doing 6 or 5 x 12 hrs days for a fortnight. That 
>> really is knackering, all you do is sleep and work. Not good, at least 
>> we have the Working Time Directive ...
>
> Goodness. I'm glad I'm self-employed. 

So am I but I'm not in direct control of the housr I work. The schedule of 
television drama shoots is based around a 10 hour "on camera" day. That 
means I'm normally there about and hour before and a bit after those hours 
to set up and clear up. Some studio based days are 0800 - 2000 on camera, 
come about 1700 you just want to go home...

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

> Goodness. I'm glad I'm self-employed. Mind you, it's hard to work out
> how many hours I work. I've been known to work on a cane chair for
> several hours in the evening while watching TV, or work on a client's
> website after midnight, just because I'm awake and unlikely to be
> disturbed by the phone. But somehow it doesn't seem so much like work
> when you're doing it on your own premises.
> 
> ally 

Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the world 
too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No time or money 
to travel and see the world (while you still can).

Johnny-off-to-Oz-soon

On 07 Oct 2008 13:08:18 GMT, Johnny wrote:

> You have to pay for better optics however. You get better optics from > 'camera' companies (Nikon, Canon etc) than electronic companies (Sony,> Panasonic etc) as a general rule of thumb.

General rule of thumb my ancient 3Mp Casio has optics from Canon... It 
works but is rather bulky but has a real B shutter setting which I find useful for night shots of the northern lights (when they are visible 
another few years before they retrun to Cumbria).

> You can get it all in a camera but I'll bet you'd have to pay out £400 
> or more to be really satisfied with the photos.

I donno, I got my daughter a £60 cheapy point and shoot type thing from 
CPC (Traveller 610) and it takes better pictures than my Casio but it is a 
few years younger.

> You could just jump in anywhere you can afford and make the best of what 
> you get. That's what most people do. It's not so bad. Way better than > nothing.

Agreed, work out what features you want, macro, good optics (essential),good optical zoom range, how long it takes to boot up, movie mode and it's 
quality/time etc then see what can provide those features at an affordable 
price to you.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"a l l y"  wrote:

>
>"Alfred Packer"  wrote in message 
>news:1223213549_4969@pro-front01.com...
>>
>> we have those in the office in the new building, they're timed to turn the 
>> lights off at 7 pm on Sunday.  First time it happened I assumed the 
>> security guard had turned them off so I shouted to turn them back on.  Now 
>> I tilt my chair back and wave my arm and the whole area is lit up again.
>>
>Some years ago I was with friends in one of those areas outside a pub with 
>tables where you can sit when the weather's decent, and it was getting dark. 
>People were coming and going so we weren't aware that the only lighting was 
>provided by security lights until everyone sat down and the movement 
>stopped. For the rest of our visit we had to get up every few minutes to 
>wave our arms around under the sensor.
>

The previous owner here fitted a pir system in the kitchen, which
turned on three 40W bulbs. It was quite useful, but I've had to 
remove it all because it was unsafe. I found four wiring faults,
and several other issues. (I dread to think what the wiring is like
in the conservatory. Still, it gives me something to do.)

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote:

>On 07 Oct 2008 13:08:18 GMT, Johnny wrote:
>
>> You have to pay for better optics however. You get better optics from 
>> 'camera' companies (Nikon, Canon etc) than electronic companies (Sony, 
>> Panasonic etc) as a general rule of thumb.
>
>General rule of thumb my ancient 3Mp Casio has optics from Canon... It 
>works but is rather bulky but has a real B shutter setting which I find 
>useful for night shots of the northern lights (when they are visible 
>another few years before they retrun to Cumbria).
>
>> You can get it all in a camera but I'll bet you'd have to pay out £400 
>> or more to be really satisfied with the photos.
>
>I donno, I got my daughter a £60 cheapy point and shoot type thing from 
>CPC (Traveller 610) and it takes better pictures than my Casio but it is a 
>few years younger.
>
>> You could just jump in anywhere you can afford and make the best of what 
>> you get. That's what most people do. It's not so bad. Way better than 
>> nothing.
>
>Agreed, work out what features you want, macro, good optics (essential), 
>good optical zoom range, how long it takes to boot up, movie mode and it's 
>quality/time etc then see what can provide those features at an affordable 
>price to you.

Thanks for that, Dave. I think in the short term I'll ask my sister to
bring her camera when she visits.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k8drkf3.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:49:16 +0100, a l l y wrote:
>
>>> A twelve hour working day for me is the normal, a "short" day is 8. In
>>> the past I've been doing 6 or 5 x 12 hrs days for a fortnight. That
>>> really is knackering, all you do is sleep and work. Not good, at least
>>> we have the Working Time Directive ...
>>
>> Goodness. I'm glad I'm self-employed.
>
> So am I but I'm not in direct control of the housr I work. The schedule of
> television drama shoots is based around a 10 hour "on camera" day. That
> means I'm normally there about and hour before and a bit after those hours
> to set up and clear up. Some studio based days are 0800 - 2000 on camera,
> come about 1700 you just want to go home...
>
> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave.
>
Dave, were you on the road with BBC in Cockermouth when I read this into the 
mic and they wouldn't send it

Mens' Undies
............................

I've got it! I've got it!
Cried the sweetened old pet
I've managed to sew on
Each side a wee net
A hole in the middle
For a fiddle, no doubt
A big enough hole, to let
A 'tiddler' sprout
while a nut in each net
Will let the warmth out.

Edith-Dashing 'round the corner.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k8dufj0.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
On 07 Oct 2008 13:08:18 GMT, Johnny wrote:

>> You have to pay for better optics however. You get better optics from
>> 'camera' companies (Nikon, Canon etc) than electronic companies (Sony,
>> Panasonic etc) as a general rule of thumb.

>General rule of thumb my ancient 3Mp Casio has optics from Canon... It
>works but is rather bulky but has a real B shutter setting which I find
>useful for night shots of the northern lights (when they are visible
>another few years before they retrun to Cumbria).

Now I'm jealous. I can't find an affordable camera with a B setting. There 
are times I miss my old film camera . . . (Olympus OM1 SLR - I loved it.)

ally

"The Traveller"  wrote in message 
news:48eb92eb$1@news.broadpark.no...

>>
> Dave, were you on the road with BBC in Cockermouth when I read this into 
> the mic and they wouldn't send it
>
> Mens' Undies
> ............................
>
> I've got it! I've got it!
> Cried the sweetened old pet
> I've managed to sew on
> Each side a wee net
> A hole in the middle
> For a fiddle, no doubt
> A big enough hole, to let
> A 'tiddler' sprout
> while a nut in each net
> Will let the warmth out.
>
You didn't? Did you?

ally-shocked

"Sleepalot"  wrote in message 
news:toume45amv74ek0g60mac4991jlb4ueg9p@4ax.com...
> "a l l y"  wrote:
>
>>
>>"Alfred Packer"  wrote in message
>>news:1223213549_4969@pro-front01.com...
>>>
>>> we have those in the office in the new building, they're timed to turn 
>>> the
>>> lights off at 7 pm on Sunday.  First time it happened I assumed the
>>> security guard had turned them off so I shouted to turn them back on. 
>>> Now
>>> I tilt my chair back and wave my arm and the whole area is lit up again.
>>>
>>Some years ago I was with friends in one of those areas outside a pub with
>>tables where you can sit when the weather's decent, and it was getting 
>>dark.
>>People were coming and going so we weren't aware that the only lighting 
>>was
>>provided by security lights until everyone sat down and the movement
>>stopped. For the rest of our visit we had to get up every few minutes to
>>wave our arms around under the sensor.

It's a good job the waiter didn't come with more beers every time someone 
waved their arms about. I'd have been sloshed.
>>
>
> The previous owner here fitted a pir system in the kitchen, which
> turned on three 40W bulbs. It was quite useful, but I've had to
> remove it all because it was unsafe. I found four wiring faults,
> and several other issues. (I dread to think what the wiring is like
> in the conservatory. Still, it gives me something to do.)
>
That's right, Sleepy. Make it safe.

Edith.

"Johnny" <Johnny@ominous.portent> wrote in message 
news:48eb6077$0$8383$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>> Goodness. I'm glad I'm self-employed. Mind you, it's hard to work out
>> how many hours I work. I've been known to work on a cane chair for
>> several hours in the evening while watching TV, or work on a client's
>> website after midnight, just because I'm awake and unlikely to be
>> disturbed by the phone. But somehow it doesn't seem so much like work
>> when you're doing it on your own premises.
>>
>> ally
>
> Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the world
> too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No time or 
> money
> to travel and see the world (while you still can).
>
Yeah, there is that.

Oh well.

ally

"a l l y"  wrote in message 
news:6l1j7vF8cv5bU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "The Traveller"  wrote in message 
> news:48eb92eb$1@news.broadpark.no...
>
>>>
>> Dave, were you on the road with BBC in Cockermouth when I read this into 
>> the mic and they wouldn't send it
>>
>> Mens' Undies
>> ............................
>>
>> I've got it! I've got it!
>> Cried the sweetened old pet
>> I've managed to sew on
>> Each side a wee net
>> A hole in the middle
>> For a fiddle, no doubt
>> A big enough hole, to let
>> A 'tiddler' sprout
>> while a nut in each net
>> Will let the warmth out.
>>
> You didn't? Did you?
>
> ally-shocked
Yes. I thought it was sweet.

Edith.

On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:04:50 +0100, a l l y wrote:

> Now I'm jealous. I can't find an affordable camera with a B setting. 
> There are times I miss my old film camera . . . (Olympus OM1 SLR - I 
> loved it.)

Digits don't like long exposures the self noise in the sensor starts to 
show up. This camera will go from 1/1000 to 60 seconds timed then bulb. 
Casio QV3500ex it's old (10 years?) might get one second hand but it is 
only 3.3Mp but does have a Canon lens.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k8ehtn0.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:04:50 +0100, a l l y wrote:
>
>> Now I'm jealous. I can't find an affordable camera with a B setting.
>> There are times I miss my old film camera . . . (Olympus OM1 SLR - I
>> loved it.)
>
> Digits don't like long exposures the self noise in the sensor starts to
> show up.

Ah, yes, of course, I hadn't thought of that. In time, then, perhaps they'll 
improve the technology enough to avoid that.

This camera will go from 1/1000 to 60 seconds timed then bulb.
> Casio QV3500ex it's old (10 years?) might get one second hand but it is
> only 3.3Mp but does have a Canon lens.
>
Mine only does 15 seconds, which is better than nothing, but nothing like 
long enough for some of the things I'd like to do. As well as setting it up 
on a tripod to watch the curved pathways of the stars, or to detect meteors, 
there are fun things I'd like to do a bit better, like painting with light.

ally

>> Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the world
>> too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No time or 
>> money
>> to travel and see the world (while you still can).
>>
> Yeah, there is that.
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> ally 

I buy lottery tickets.

Johnny-cagey-investment-plan

"Johnny" <Johnny@ominous.portent> wrote in message 
news:48ecaeca$0$5186$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>> Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the world
>>> too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No time or
>>> money
>>> to travel and see the world (while you still can).
>>>
>> Yeah, there is that.
>>
>> Oh well.
>>
>> ally
>
> I buy lottery tickets.
>
I don't, thereby saving £1 per week.

ally

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:18:36 +0100, a l l y wrote:

>> Digits don't like long exposures the self noise in the sensor starts to
>> show up.
> 
> Ah, yes, of course, I hadn't thought of that. In time, then, perhaps 
> they'll improve the technology enough to avoid that.

Can't do much about the Laws of Physics... Less noise when the sensor is 
cold, so just rig up a liquid Helium supply for it. Might be simpler to 
pop it in the fridge for an hour or so before you want to take night 
pictures but condensation in the lens might be a problem.

> Mine only does 15 seconds, which is better than nothing, but nothing 
> like long enough for some of the things I'd like to do. 

The memory setting I have for aurora shots is 10s @ F2 ISO180 but that is 
only a starting point. If the aurora is dim I'll go up to 30s, much more a 
noise is a problem.

> As well as setting it up on a tripod to watch the curved pathways of the 
> stars, 

You need hours for that, though you can detect the movement in a 30s 
exposure when zoomed in.

> or to detect meteors, 

I don't have the patience...

> there are fun things I'd like to do a bit better, like painting with 
> light.

Yes that is fun or traffic at night. Waterfalls always look nice with a 
long exposure. Of course you could digitally overlay several exposures for 
your light painting.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:19:57 +0100, Sleepalot wrote:

> The previous owner here fitted a pir system in the kitchen, which
> turned on three 40W bulbs. It was quite useful, 

I fitted one to the kitchen in my Bristol flat. It is very handy having 
the light come on when you enter and not have to remember to switch it 
off. In my case it was 3 x 60W spots so some power saving was to had as 
well. I'm thinking about fitting one to the utility room light here, I'm 
always turning it off but never on. It's only a 58W florry but 58W all day 
isn't far short of a unit of electricity and it's every day.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

>>>> Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the
>>>> world too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No
>>>> time or money
>>>> to travel and see the world (while you still can).
>>>>
>>> Yeah, there is that.
>>>
>>> Oh well.
>>>
>>> ally
>>
>> I buy lottery tickets.
>>
> I don't, thereby saving £1 per week.
> 
> ally 

In that case, I save trillions every day not buy all sorts of things!

Johnny-funny-accounting-principles

>> The previous owner here fitted a pir system in the kitchen, which
>> turned on three 40W bulbs. It was quite useful, 
> 
> I fitted one to the kitchen in my Bristol flat. It is very handy
> having the light come on when you enter and not have to remember to
> switch it off. In my case it was 3 x 60W spots so some power saving
> was to had as well. I'm thinking about fitting one to the utility room
> light here, I'm always turning it off but never on. It's only a 58W
> florry but 58W all day isn't far short of a unit of electricity and
> it's every day. 

What's with all the 40W and 60W? Are you guys not using CF's yet? I think 
we may have one incandescent left in our house. In a fixture that rarely 
gets turned on. 

Johnny-we're-buying-a-high-efficiency-fridge-next

"Johnny" <Johnny@ominous.portent> wrote in message 
news:48edfaf7$0$23079$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>>>> Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the
>>>>> world too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No
>>>>> time or money
>>>>> to travel and see the world (while you still can).
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah, there is that.
>>>>
>>>> Oh well.
>>>>
>>>> ally
>>>
>>> I buy lottery tickets.
>>>
>> I don't, thereby saving £1 per week.
>>
>> ally
>
> In that case, I save trillions every day not buy all sorts of things!
>
Me too!

I really ought to be rich.

ally

"Johnny" <Johnny@ominous.portent> wrote in message 
news:48edfe09$0$23084$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>> The previous owner here fitted a pir system in the kitchen, which
>>> turned on three 40W bulbs. It was quite useful,
>>
>> I fitted one to the kitchen in my Bristol flat. It is very handy
>> having the light come on when you enter and not have to remember to
>> switch it off. In my case it was 3 x 60W spots so some power saving
>> was to had as well. I'm thinking about fitting one to the utility room
>> light here, I'm always turning it off but never on. It's only a 58W
>> florry but 58W all day isn't far short of a unit of electricity and
>> it's every day.
>
> What's with all the 40W and 60W? Are you guys not using CF's yet? I think
> we may have one incandescent left in our house. In a fixture that rarely
> gets turned on.
>
> Johnny-we're-buying-a-high-efficiency-fridge-next

Most of the energy saving bulbs I've got have a really weird colour spectrum 
that seems to drain all the reds out of the light. Quite depressing. It's ok 
for a hall light or something, but I wouldn't use them in a living room. 
Maybe they've got improved versions in Canada?

ally

>>>> The previous owner here fitted a pir system in the kitchen, which
>>>> turned on three 40W bulbs. It was quite useful,
>>>
>>> I fitted one to the kitchen in my Bristol flat. It is very handy
>>> having the light come on when you enter and not have to remember to
>>> switch it off. In my case it was 3 x 60W spots so some power saving
>>> was to had as well. I'm thinking about fitting one to the utility
>>> room light here, I'm always turning it off but never on. It's only a
>>> 58W florry but 58W all day isn't far short of a unit of electricity
>>> and it's every day.
>>
>> What's with all the 40W and 60W? Are you guys not using CF's yet? I
>> think we may have one incandescent left in our house. In a fixture
>> that rarely gets turned on.
>>
>> Johnny-we're-buying-a-high-efficiency-fridge-next
> 
> Most of the energy saving bulbs I've got have a really weird colour
> spectrum that seems to drain all the reds out of the light. Quite
> depressing. It's ok for a hall light or something, but I wouldn't use
> them in a living room. Maybe they've got improved versions in Canada?
> 
> ally 

Indeed we do. There's two flavours of CF's. 'Cool White' which are garrish.  
I use them in exteriors, the basement, and in the garage. And 'Soft' or 
'Warm' which match the incandescents perfectly for living areas.

You just can't put CF's on a dimmer switch, but there's other high 
efficiency lights for that.

Johnny-not-too-many-dimmers-in-our-house

>>>>>> Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the
>>>>>> world too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No
>>>>>> time or money
>>>>>> to travel and see the world (while you still can).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, there is that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh well.
>>>>>
>>>>> ally
>>>>
>>>> I buy lottery tickets.
>>>>
>>> I don't, thereby saving £1 per week.
>>>
>>> ally
>>
>> In that case, I save trillions every day not buy all sorts of things!
>>
> Me too!
> 
> I really ought to be rich.
> 
> ally 
 
You mean 'stinking rich' as many would say you were rich already. 

Johnny-perspectives

"Johnny" <Johnny@ominous.portent> wrote in message 
news:48ee25fa$0$25019$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>>>>>> Yeah, and I'll grant you that you live in a beautiful part of the
>>>>>>> world too, but you also seemed a bit trapped by your work-style. No
>>>>>>> time or money
>>>>>>> to travel and see the world (while you still can).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, there is that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ally
>>>>>
>>>>> I buy lottery tickets.
>>>>>
>>>> I don't, thereby saving £1 per week.
>>>>
>>>> ally
>>>
>>> In that case, I save trillions every day not buy all sorts of things!
>>>
>> Me too!
>>
>> I really ought to be rich.
>>
>> ally
>
> You mean 'stinking rich' as many would say you were rich already.
>
Well, it's all relative, I suppose. I guess my younger self, back in the 
days when I was struggling to make ends meet and with a baby to feed, would 
consider my current self pretty well-off. And even that struggling young 
woman was rich compared with many of my fellow Edinburgh citizens, trapped 
in high-rise flats, who were, in turn, rich compared to the dossers sleeping 
on the streets, who  . . . . (I refuse to get into that Monty Python sketch 
. . .)

ally

"Johnny" <Johnny@ominous.portent> wrote in message 
news:48ee2578$0$25019$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>>>> The previous owner here fitted a pir system in the kitchen, which
>>>>> turned on three 40W bulbs. It was quite useful,
>>>>
>>>> I fitted one to the kitchen in my Bristol flat. It is very handy
>>>> having the light come on when you enter and not have to remember to
>>>> switch it off. In my case it was 3 x 60W spots so some power saving
>>>> was to had as well. I'm thinking about fitting one to the utility
>>>> room light here, I'm always turning it off but never on. It's only a
>>>> 58W florry but 58W all day isn't far short of a unit of electricity
>>>> and it's every day.
>>>
>>> What's with all the 40W and 60W? Are you guys not using CF's yet? I
>>> think we may have one incandescent left in our house. In a fixture
>>> that rarely gets turned on.
>>>
>>> Johnny-we're-buying-a-high-efficiency-fridge-next
>>
>> Most of the energy saving bulbs I've got have a really weird colour
>> spectrum that seems to drain all the reds out of the light. Quite
>> depressing. It's ok for a hall light or something, but I wouldn't use
>> them in a living room. Maybe they've got improved versions in Canada?
>>
>> ally
>
> Indeed we do. There's two flavours of CF's. 'Cool White' which are 
> garrish.
> I use them in exteriors, the basement, and in the garage. And 'Soft' or
> 'Warm' which match the incandescents perfectly for living areas.
>
That sounds a lot more acceptable.


> You just can't put CF's on a dimmer switch, but there's other high
> efficiency lights for that.
>
> Johnny-not-too-many-dimmers-in-our-house

We've no dimmers. I'm not fond of them. I prefer to have a variety of 
different lights to choose from.

ally

On 09 Oct 2008 12:50:17 GMT, Johnny wrote:

> What's with all the 40W and 60W? Are you guys not using CF's yet?

In my case it was in my Bristol flat that I sold ten years ago... Here 
there are still a few incandesants about but only in places that rarely 
get used. Used places have CFLs or normal florries.

> Johnny-we're-buying-a-high-efficiency-fridge-next

Already have A rated fridge freezer and other freezer, donno what the 
larder fridge is, that came with the house.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 15:18:06 +0100, a l l y wrote:

> Maybe they've got improved versions in Canada?

They have improved a great deal as far as colour and start-up is 
concerned. We have some in the lounge that are a pretty close match to 
tungsten. 6 x 9W CFLs instead of 6 x 40W candles, significant power saving 
as they are frequently on from 0700 to 0300...

Trouble is I don't think there is an easy way to tell what sort of light 
you are going to get. These lounge lamps are GEC Tech ones the key bit on 
the label is "2700K" relating to the colour temperature.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

>> What's with all the 40W and 60W? Are you guys not using CF's yet?
> 
> In my case it was in my Bristol flat that I sold ten years ago... Here 
> there are still a few incandesants about but only in places that rarely 
> get used. Used places have CFLs or normal florries.
> 
>> Johnny-we're-buying-a-high-efficiency-fridge-next
> 
> Already have A rated fridge freezer and other freezer, donno what the 
> larder fridge is, that came with the house.

Our frige is from '87. Wouldn't be surprised if it's 1000 kWh per year. 
Newest 'high efficiency' ones are 100 kWh per year. Energy Star (the best 
of the units for sale at appliance stores these days) rated ones are about 
400 kWh per year. I've been having trouble finding sources of high 
efficiency ones to consider!

Johnny-frustrated

>> Maybe they've got improved versions in Canada?
> 
> They have improved a great deal as far as colour and start-up is 
> concerned. We have some in the lounge that are a pretty close match to
> tungsten. 6 x 9W CFLs instead of 6 x 40W candles, significant power
> saving as they are frequently on from 0700 to 0300...
> 
> Trouble is I don't think there is an easy way to tell what sort of
> light you are going to get. These lounge lamps are GEC Tech ones the
> key bit on the label is "2700K" relating to the colour temperature.

CF's here are usually sold, regardless of manufacturer, in blue and white 
packages if the are 'white' and a purple/maroon/brown package if they match 
the incandescents. Stupid system, I know.

Johnny-designed-for-idiots

"Johnny" <Johnny@ominous.portent> wrote in message 
news:48ee8804$0$16397$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>>> Maybe they've got improved versions in Canada?
>>
>> They have improved a great deal as far as colour and start-up is
>> concerned. We have some in the lounge that are a pretty close match to
>> tungsten. 6 x 9W CFLs instead of 6 x 40W candles, significant power
>> saving as they are frequently on from 0700 to 0300...
>>
>> Trouble is I don't think there is an easy way to tell what sort of
>> light you are going to get. These lounge lamps are GEC Tech ones the
>> key bit on the label is "2700K" relating to the colour temperature.
>
> CF's here are usually sold, regardless of manufacturer, in blue and white
> packages if the are 'white' and a purple/maroon/brown package if they 
> match
> the incandescents. Stupid system, I know.
>
> Johnny-designed-for-idiots
>
We have just changed to bulbs that give better light and use let watts. 
Difference: from 40 watt down to 4. The fridges are better than the old 
ones.

Edith, signing off with -- Goodnight 
everybody.ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz  z